What is a good oil to run in a Harley Twin Cam 88

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How quickly we forget...
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But lucky for you guys you've got me here to remind you.
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May I call your attention to the four best UOA's on Harleys in the BITOG archives, linked below...

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post714572

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post715108

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post733603

Note that these are all dino oils. If someone can produce a synthetic oil UOA on a Harley with better wear metal counts, I'll congratulate you.





That last UOA you listed is Molakule's synthetic 20w50. (Or it may be a syn blend--I can't remember what he told me. But for sure it's not a straight Group II oil. And even if a blend, Molakule uses Group III and Group IV for his blends.)
 
I was told it was a group III dino oil, it's not a syn--unless we were to use Castrol's standards. And if we're going that route, Havoline group III dino oils can be called synthetics too.

If it is a group IV oil, then Molakule has figured out how to make it work better than Amsoil or Redline or Mobil 1 or any of the other IV and V syns on the market. But if you'll research the matter, I'm betting this is a group III, even based on the shear to a 40 weight (not a problem as far as the oil's performance).

The major point is that the best UOA's on file here for Harley engines are from dino oils, and not the more expensive group IV and V true synthetic bases.
 
Is it just the Standard Havoline Dino for cars 20w50 ? Have you tried anything latley ? I've read it's a new formula since they started using the deposit shield.
 
I have not investigated the Deposit Shield Havoline 20W50 oils as of yet. We are still finding the older SL forumula around here on the shelves... (And I've also bought two cases of Chevron Supreme 20W50 for a buck twenty-five a quart, which is the same stuff).
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If the deposit shield is a concern, you can just go to the high mileage Havoline 20W50 which isn't advertised to have that. Valvoline's Maxlife is another option. Good, thick viscosity in the 20W50 with a healthier ZDDP count. I'm sure it would do very well for you.

Or consider the Valvoline VR1 (see the UOA I posted on my bike using two quarts of 20W50 VR1 and one quart of straight 60 weight VR1)... this stuff is available at Autozone, and probably at Advance as well...

As far as straight wear metal numbers, that VR1 UOA is the best one on file here for a Harley--it's even better than the LC UOA I also linked. The only problem I have with the VR1 is it's 3 bucks a quart... and the Havoline is 2 dollars and does a fine job, as my other UOA's show.

You've got a while now to decide what you're going to do next (until your next oil change is due). Study up on the Havoline with Deposit Shield and see what you can learn. If Havoline has raised the price of that oil (and in all liklihood, they have) then that would make the VR1 Valvoline product look more appealing...

Dan
 
I only run synthetics in my TC88. Way better engine performance IMO much less mechanical noise with M1Vtwin 20w50. HD360 and Syn3 both make the top end of my bike clatter. Amsoils MC oils are excellent as well. I know more than 10 people who use them religiously for over 15 years and log well over 150k on evo's & tc88's with no rebuilds. So, synthetics are the top shelf for my bikes period!
 
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I only run synthetics in my TC88. Way better engine performance IMO much less mechanical noise with M1Vtwin 20w50. HD360 and Syn3 both make the top end of my bike clatter. Amsoils MC oils are excellent as well. I know more than 10 people who use them religiously for over 15 years and log well over 150k on evo's & tc88's with no rebuilds. So, synthetics are the top shelf for my bikes period!



Here here
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Because of the wear problem with the cam tensioners in the TCs I decided that at 42000 miles on them I should have mine changed. The tensioners were a little worn but not in any danger of coming apart and getting into my oil pump. The cams and bearings looked like new and were clean. This is a 2003 electra Glide Classic.

I also decided to do away with the problem and put in S & S 510 gear driven cams. Definate performance improvement!

For all but the first 1000 miles I have used the Amsoil 20w 50 in the engine and change the oil one time a year - in the fall.
 
Thanks for sharing, qtschulz. Sounds like you put Amsoil to the test and got an A+ at 10,000 mile/1 year oil changes on your Harley, which is the maximum Amsoil recommends without UOA. Are you also using the Amsoil oil and air filters?

Friends of mine have upgraded their engines at similar or higher mileages with the same OCI. They got calls from the mechanic who also noticed the engine looked new.

I do the same with my BMW at 12,000 mile/1 year, whichever occurs first. I put 137,000 miles on it and upgraded to the newer, higher performing model.
 
If longevity without overhauling is the measuring stick here... the record on an Evolution engine is over 400,000 miles on HD 360 dino oil. There are at least two such engines which have been documented. And now Dave Willet (who put around 420K on his 1987 Evo) has nearly 300,000 miles on a TC engine (I don't know if he has done cam chain tensioner work)... He's still using dino HD 360 oil at 2500 mile OCI's. American Iron magazine has profiled these motorcycles, and Harley Davidson actually gave Dave Willet the new Twin Cam he is riding now, in even trade for the 1987 Tour Glide with the 420K+ miles on it. (the Tour Glide in now in the Harley Davidson museum in Milwaukee)... The services were all documented at HD dealerships around the country, and the oil was always the HD 360 stuff, some of it was probably the new Citgo forumula, most was probably the Sunoco produced stuff. Both oils work just fine.

So we can't use anecdotal evidence of 100,000+ mile engines to bolster the aptitude of synthetic oil over dino oil. Since we know that a properly serviced HD engine can run over 400,000 miles on dino oil without an overhaul, it should not be surprising that a syn could make that engine run at least 300,000 miles. But since the syns are turning in higher wear metal counts in UOA's... then I don't think any reasonable person should expect their engine to last longer on a syn than on a good dino oil. We can discuss the reasons for the wear metal differences, but we cannot dispute that they are there.

The noises we hear from our Harley Davidson engines are rarely a good indicator as to whether we're hearing a normally performing, happy engine or not. The molecular structure of some oils might ( might ) carry sound a bit better... or even the humidity level in the air can muffle sounds on the day we decide to see whether or not our new oil makes the engine quieter than the old one... the outside temperature has a direct effect on how quickly an engine warms up, and also how hot it runs, which in turn alters the volume and pitch of sounds coming from the engine. A full gas tank can dampen top cylinder noise, whereas an empty or nearly empty tank can echo these sounds...

Wear metal counts in UOA's should be the criterion. And there is where we see that a good dino oil seems pretty hard to equal for a syn--let alone beat.
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Dan
 
I can't see why anyone would want to change their Citgo/Chavez/Venezuelan/USA hater/HD oil every 2500 miles when they can use good ol' American Amsoil every 10,000 miles and get the results that qzshulz got at 42,000 miles. I think engine tear downs tell more than UOA's.
 
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I can't see why anyone would want to change their Citgo/Chavez/Venezuelan/USA hater/HD oil every 2500 miles when they can use good ol' American Amsoil every 10,000 miles and get the results that qzshulz got at 42,000 miles. I think engine tear downs tell more than UOA's.




Tim, the point is you don't have to use a synthetic in a HD engine to get phenomenal longevity. These engines may be an ancient design, but it's a sound design. Any quality oil that is changed at reasonable intervals will yield roughly equal longevity.
 
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone saying you need to use a synthetic in a HD engine to get phenomemal longetivity. I think what many people say is you can use a group IV/V synthetic oil and change it much less often to achieve phenomenal longetivity. And better gas mileage, lower temperatures, higher temperature engine protection, more performance, etc....
 
I have a UOA on VR1 posted here... it is awesome...
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The problem with going for 10,000 mile OCI's in a Harley engine (or any other motorcycle engine, for that matter) is that the oil can fuel dilute, and leave you with a compromised oil for many thousands of miles.

How would you like to have been this guy--if he had gone for a long OCI with his synthetic oil: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...part=1&vc=1


You could sample the oil for a UOA every 2500 miles, but that will cost at least 20 bucks. Whereas an three quarts of a good dino oil will cost only about 7 or 8 dollars.

Also, you'll be leaving that synthetic oil in the engine for more than a year if you are a typical rider... many guys don't ride 10,000 miles in three or four years. It is better to change the oil at least seasonally.

Dan
 
I agree on changing the oil at least once a year, the oil maker recommends this. However, there shouldn't be a problem running 10K miles during this time on it either. In today's modern fuel injected bikes, fuel dilution shouldn't be a problem, unless it has been highly modified.
 
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