Well so much for CJ-4 requiring better basestocks.
Rotella T CI-4+ = 100% Group II Basestock
Rotella T CJ-4 = 100% Group II Basestock
Rotella T CI-4+ = 100% Group II Basestock
Rotella T CJ-4 = 100% Group II Basestock
CJ-4 Basestocks
- Thread starter Gene K
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Who cares; the performance specifications for CJ-4 are much more stringent than for CI-4+. CJ=4 oils are a better product period and are much better suited for late model gasoline engines.
It's all about the new additives...
Yes but most of the statements in Trucking Industry Publications have the lube manufactures stating that they were going to meet the long-drain requirements with improved basestocks. That way the TBN would be lower but more stable. We shall see how they stand up to 60,000 mi drains I guess. I have my doubts.
I did notice that the new CJ-4 lubes now meet SM according to the manufactures.
Gene
I did notice that the new CJ-4 lubes now meet SM according to the manufactures.
Gene
shell-lubricants.com/CJ4_cj4/faq
18. Will I see any difference in oil consumption in my equipment?
We do not anticipate any difference in oil consumption with Shell Rotella® T API CJ-4 motor oil Shell Rotella® T uses and has used 100% group II base oil for years. Group II base oils have very good volatility. Our new API CJ-4 Shell Rotella® T will use 100% group II base oil.
18. Will I see any difference in oil consumption in my equipment?
We do not anticipate any difference in oil consumption with Shell Rotella® T API CJ-4 motor oil Shell Rotella® T uses and has used 100% group II base oil for years. Group II base oils have very good volatility. Our new API CJ-4 Shell Rotella® T will use 100% group II base oil.
The reason for that comment is that some 15W-40 HDEOs were using some Group 1. That practice was something API (and the engine builders) wanted to change, so they put a sulfur limit on the oils. Apparently, Rotella 15W-40 was not one of the oils that had significant Group 1 content, so its basestocks were not affected by CJ-4.
Group 1 can be used as an additive carrier and not be considered a basestock because it's used in small enough quantity and only for that one purpose. bruce381 made a post at least once about additive solubility in Group 2 and I can't remember what he said. It certainly is pushing it as far as solubility goes and different companies use different carrier oils. With the new terrible search function, it would be next to impossible to find it!
Who? As far as I know Mobil Delvac 1300 was the last of the three largest selling HDEO's (Delvac, Rotella, and Delo) to use Group I Basestock (CI-4 was 30%). I was under the impression that Mobil Delvac 1300 went 100% Group II at the advent of CI-4+.
I was kind of hoping the improvement in basestocks would mean we would get 100% Group II+, Group II/III, or Mobils case even a low end Group III (per Mobil 5000).
Of course I guess just because CI-4+ and CJ-4 both use GII doesnt mean there couldnt be a basestock improvement and I dont believe Group II+ is an official category.
Delo 400 LE states it is made with ISOSYN, however the flash point has dropped from 460F for the CI-4+ version to 399F for the CJ-4 formulation. Same for the Rotella, flash now 400F. Does anybody know what's up with that?
Ed
Ed
So what exactly are the positives/negatives of Rotella using a Grp.II base oil?
HOW CAN THE CJ-4 SPEC EVEN COME CLOSE TO THE HOURS OR MILAGE OF TODAYS SPEC WHEN THEY ARE REDUCING THE CALCIUM SULFONATE AND MAGNESIUM IN THESE OILS. THE HOURS THAT OFF ROAD EQUIPMENT CAN ACHIEVE MAY SEE 125 HRS COMPARED TO TODAYS 200-225 HRS. THEY ARE TELLING US WE HAVE TO REDUCE THE TBN. YOU WILL NO LONGER SEE 12, 13 OR 15 TBN OILS. YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THESE OIL IN YOUR EQUIPMENT MORE FREQUENTLY.
Yep, but ULSD fuel if for the masses, and so is CJ4.
If someone needs more TBN, they will have to find an oil with it, or use a TBN boosting additive.
You usually don't see off-road equipment going through the jiffylube.
Along with the fancier additive package, CJ4 is a performance win for the mineral oil crowd.
Each group oil has different 'grades'. Just because the CAS# doesn't change, doesn't mean they haven't switch baseoils. I saw one Shell CAS that was used for 30 or so products, each with considerably different specs.
If someone needs more TBN, they will have to find an oil with it, or use a TBN boosting additive.
You usually don't see off-road equipment going through the jiffylube.
Along with the fancier additive package, CJ4 is a performance win for the mineral oil crowd.
Each group oil has different 'grades'. Just because the CAS# doesn't change, doesn't mean they haven't switch baseoils. I saw one Shell CAS that was used for 30 or so products, each with considerably different specs.
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Same for the Rotella, flash now 400F. Does anybody know what's up with that?
The manufacturers product data sheet states that the Rotella 10w-30 CJ-4 has a flash point of 249C or 480F. So is that false than?
I called Chevron regarding the availability of CI-4+. Have only been able to find the 'new' CJ-4, around here. They said that they were still making the CI-4+, however, it was only available in bulk quantities. No longer in gallon jugs.
If the CJ-4 is that much of an improvement, I wonder why the CI-4+ is still available for large quantity users? It appears, to me, that there must be some advantage to the 'old' CI-4+ if they are still manufacturing it. Maybe the CI-4+ 'is' a more robust oil, for those that don't actually 'need' the new CJ-4.
Joe Fihn
If the CJ-4 is that much of an improvement, I wonder why the CI-4+ is still available for large quantity users? It appears, to me, that there must be some advantage to the 'old' CI-4+ if they are still manufacturing it. Maybe the CI-4+ 'is' a more robust oil, for those that don't actually 'need' the new CJ-4.
Joe Fihn
CI-4 has higher TBN the new CJ-4 which has a lower around 8 TBN some trucker/companies are leary of the low TBN for long drians and as such CVX will make it for a while till everyone is comfortable with the CJ-4.
bruce
bruce
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