Cummins N-14, Amsoil HDD 5w30, 24532 miles on samp

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BearGator STOP! Forget what I said earlier! Get help before spending any more money.

I would contact Terry Dyson at Dyson Analysis. He is well worth what you pay him. How he works as cheap for individuals as he does I will never know. He does development work for various OEM's and Lubricant Companies. He is very good at telling exactly what is going on in an engine just from analysis. His website list a combo price for a good analysis plus interpretation. Given the replacement cost of a 14.3L Diesel it may be the best money you ever spent. Right off the top of his head he can likely steer you to the best lubricant choice for most N14's.

When you get the pump you can start to pull samples at the mileages he recommends so he can give you guidance from there.

For the time being just stay with what you have in the truck through 15,000 mi (unless Terry says otherwise). The Amsoil should protect at higher soot loadings than conventional oil.

After that use your choice of conventional oils like Chevron Delo 400, Mobil Delvac 1300, or Shell Rotella T at 10,000 mi intervals (unless Terry says otherwise) until you get this sorted out.

Its alot better to dump $100 worth of oil every 3-4 weeks than have to do a $15,000 rebuild.
 
It may be true that Amsoil can handle higher soot loads than dino oils. However, even dispersants can't due much when the high soot content dispersed gets ground into valve stems, crossheads, push tubes and rocker arms.

I was involved in some tests using M11 Celect+ engines, and BC IV engines concerning wear related to soot loading and fuel dilution. With little to no fuel dilution, a 1 percent increase in soot resulted in an increase in overhead wear by at least a full factor.

I wouldn't under-estimate the negative effects of soot as related to wear. Again, I would suggest looking at the injectors, especially if it is a mechanical N14 (STC, not Celect). I may be over reacting some to the high soot content, but I'd rather be conservative than sorry. The last N14 I inframed cost me about 7500, and I got out fairly inexpensively. Someone paying for an inframe or out-frame retail would probably pay at least double that from a reputable shop.
 
1040 Wreckerman, I was basing those mileages on holding him to 3.0 (Synthetic) and 2.0 (Conventional) soot levels. Obviously at 5.2 his soot level is to high.

Obviously he has a mechanical problem which is the reason I suggested he get Terry Dysons imput. I'm thinking stuck and/or broke rings and/or injector problems. I seem to remember the N14 being prone to both.

I dont think you and I are to far apart on this issue.
 
A couple more things - if the soot level is truly over 5%, I'll bet the filter is pretty nasty - maybe in bypass mode? I'm also thinking a conventional oil would have like gone nasty gel or well into SAE 50 range.

As I stated earlier some serious clean-up was going on. Even throwing in some Amsoil engine flush before draining will be greatly beneficial.
 
Gene K, it is very possible that it has broken rings. If the engine still runs good it probably doesn't have broken rings, a compression test would tell for sure. Also, that engine has a road draft engine breather, so when the thing is running you can see how much crank case pressure is being vented. With the truck warm, best after a good pull, stop and look at the breather. If there is an excessive amount of smoke/oil coming out then there is most likely a ring/piston/liner problem.

Even with a new engine in good health you will still get some visible smoke from that breather, so keep that in mind when trying to figure out what is excessive.

I would agree with you Pablo that the Amsoil was doing some cleaning. However I'm not sure that the oil will clean around 5% soot off the internals. I think there is a mechanical problem. I'm sure soot will stay somewhat high for a few changes as Amsoil cleans house, but the problem causing the excessive soot needs to be addressed.
 
Even with Dino, you will need to do 10K OCI's. As I said, and believe, run the Amsoil 5-30 oil again and sample with your new oil pump around 20K. Send the sample in and see where your at. The chrominum level was safe/high normal range. If the tech did the cold UOA oil sample that had sat in the pan for 2 day's then this is why the soot levels are high.When you do the next sample....when you shut down for the day pull the dipstick, mark the tubing where you need it flush out 5or6oz's and then pump the 4oz's you need. I really think your fine.
 
The soot content in the oil will not change from hot oil to cold, the oil is holding the same amount of soot in suspension. Since there wasn't high fuel dilution present, I don't think a cold drain affected the sample much. A slight amount of fall out may occur from the truck sitting idle (as in not running at all) for several days, however I don't think the results would be as significant as this UOA indicates, but I could be wrong.

Due to the low fuel dilution level, worn/stuck rings are a good area to look at for the source of the high soot level. This can be done with a leak-down tester, or simply with a compression test. I still would not discount an injector or pump problem. I have seen many injector/pump failures that would cause many problems without showing excessive fuel in the oil.

The Amsoil seems to have done well, so I don't think LargeCarMan's recommendation of running the same oil again is out of the question. Pull a sample after 7500 miles and see what is going on and reassess the situation then.
 
I'm out of town, and the truck is sitting still until Tuesday. I'll be getting an order to Amsoil, and hopefully get the truck in for the oil change before next weekend. I'm really hoping to not have any ring problems. The truck runs very good, and is getting me right at 7 mpgs. It does tend to bog down on steeper hills, but the dual-rated motor is set at the low end of 375 hp.

Can that AutoRX be bought in a store? Would it be ok to add it into my current oil and run a couple days before it gets changed?
 
No AutoRx is online only. They ship pretty quick. Adding for a couple days won't work. You must follow the instructions precisely.

If you don't have the time for AutoRx, I would still dump in the Amsoil Flush (1 can per 5 qts, about 8 cans) and do a fast idle on a hot engine for 15 minutes. (Don't drive) - Then drain. This should flush the soot out, pretty well, but won't clean the rings all that great. Maybe do another injector cleaning before this.
 
Auto-Rx.com

Mail - Order Only as far as I know.

If you are going to run the Auto-Rx just put Dino in it as the Synthetics can interfere with the cleaning process of the Esters in Auto-Rx.

Dysonanalysis.com is really worth the $50.00 (this includes a more indepth anlysis and interpretation of the results). He sometimes sees things in a analysis that leave the rest of us scratching our heads.

Anything 4.0 or higher on the soot level would scare me even with Amsoil.

I have always tried to limit it to 3.0 Synthetic or 2.0 Dino if at all possible.
 
It's been a few days since I've been able to get back here. I checked into the Auto-Rx route, and it's just too expensive for now. It was going to take a ton of that stuff, and I had to do two applications. With two oil changes, I was easily looking at 600 bucks.

For now, I am going to drain and put fresh Amsoil in. I'll get a sample at the drain since it'll have 4000 or so more miles on it. I'll then re-sample at 7500 or 10000.

I plan on getting a bypass system, but still have to see which one best suits my needs. The two that seem the best are the fs2500 and the Gulf Coast units. The Gulf Coast is pretty big, though. They both have similar claims, and both are about the same cost at 600 bucks. If the bypass system can get the soot levels down, I'll be happy.

My truck has experienced a loss of pulling power that I thought was the fuel filters. It hasn't regained any since I changed them. I'm starting to think I may have a bad injector-but will need to have it checked out. I think someone mentioned that the soot could be high from this type of problem.

Once I get a new sample, I will be sure to post it!
 
You might also check into a LuberFiner (or FleetGaurd) 750 filter. Ralph sells the 750 sized filters. I finally found a LuberFiner dealer (Mack dealer) that didn't look at me like I was crazy and I just ordered two LF750 housings. These take a filter that was typically shredded newspapers or cotton, however the housings can be modified to take a paper towel roll. These are very similar in size and performance to the Gulf Coast filter. Ralph Wood sells the 750 ready to run PT's for around 400 I think, which will save you about 200 plus the cost of the "special" filters those others will sell you.

You could also either run the stock 750 element or buy and convert the housing yourself. The Gulf Coast filter is a good filter, however the 750 also has a 40+ year track record and is a good filter also. I've run both LuberFiners and Gulf Coast, I choose the one I can get the best price on.
 
I have been able to find the fs2500 housing on ebay for right around 200 bucks. I am trying to see if the company that makes them will sell a hose and fitting kit for it. The 2500 is a smaller unit at 11 inches. The Gulf Coast looks like it would be harder to find a mounting location.
 
You should have lots of room on the frame rails. If it's a sleeper truck you could mount it between the frame rails under the sleep probably. I'm sure there is room, I've had lots of trucks with LuberFiners on them and never had a problem mounting them somewhere.

You could go to your local hydraulic hose shop to get your fittings and hoses. You will get better materials probably then you will get from FS, I buy all my stuff from our hydraulic supply house.
 
UPDATE:

Truck is in the shop today for oil change and the loss of power/mpg issue. Tech told me the #1 injector is not working.

I have to take it to a Cummins shop to have it covered under warranty. I think this may be my soot problem, too!
 
At this level of soot, the oil filter(s) are no doubt clogged and are in bypass mode. In case, I'd recommend doing a couple of additional full flow filter changes at short intervals. It may be possible to filter enough of this agglomerated (clumped), soot out of this oil to enable you to continue using it.

As for the condition of the oil, I'd say it held up remarkably well. Even with the 5%+ soot, there was only a moderate amount of thickening. At 13.2 Cst, this oil has just crept into the 40wt range. Of course it's still thinner than a typical xw-40, HDEO and the cold temp pumpability would still be very good. I'd guess it would test out as an SAE 10w-40 at this point....
 
TeeDub...
I plan on changing out the filter at 7500 miles when I do the first sample on this oil. I may make that a habit until I can get a bypass system on there.
 
BearGator56,

There is a perception that FF filters can't remove soot particles, since they are soo small. This is technically true, if in fact these are discrete particles and not masses of soot that have clumped together. What happens is that once the soot has reached a certain concentration, the soot starts to clump or agglomerate, due to electrostatic attraction. Once that occurs, these clumped particles can and will be removed by the oil filter.

There is actually a controlled test that is part of the API, CI-4+ and CJ-4 specifications that evaluates the ability of an engine oil to minimize filter plugging. As I recall, the limit of this test is when you reach 79 psid (pressure differential), across the filter media. In other words, this is a severe overtest.

PAO basestocks generally do a superior job of suspending/dispersing soot. This is true even if they have the exact same additive chemistry as a petroleum lubricant.
So using a low viscosity, 5w-30, PAO/Ester synthetic is going to get you the best results under these conditions. I suspect a 15w-40 petroleum lube would be a 20w-50 or 25w-50 with these soot levels you're seeing and the truck would not start easily in cold weather.

If you have time, I'd cut the 7500 mile filter open; spread out the pleats and look for signs of clumped soot particles. Wash it out with some mineral spirits if you have to ....
 
Truck is finally getting fixed. They had it on a dyno, and it ran at 83%. The tech said that was pretty good for 516k miles.
 
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