Cummins N-14, Amsoil HDD 5w30, 24532 miles on samp

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Hello! This is my first oil analysis, it has a high soot level. My question is this... Is it possible that the high soot could have been from the vehicle sitting for a few days while it was serviced? I don't think the mechanic ran it to circulate the oil and warm up the motor (would the soot settle?). He used the drain to get the sample instead of a pump. Also, could the use of Amsoil be cleaning out the motor and contributing to the soot? I want to be able to go with extended intervals. I may have to add a bypass filter if soot levels stay the same after oil change.

This sample is from a 2000 Volvo VNL64T w/Cummins N14. Miles on oil at time were 24532, with 508485 on the tractor total. Oil is Amsoil's Series 2000 Heavy Duty Diesel 5w30. Filter is a Donaldson Extended Life (ELF) 7300. I bought the truck at 466k miles, and this was the first Amsoil to my knowledge. It was in a fleet before I bought it, so I am assuming Rotella or other standard fleet type oil was used prior.

Here it is:

iron....45
chromium...13
lead...10
copper...33
tin...0
aluminum...3
nickel...0
silver...0
silicon...6
boron...2
sodium...0
magnesium...55
calcium...3602
barium...0
phosphorus...1171
zinc...1346
molybendum...9
titanium...0
vanadium...0
potassium...0

fuel... [email protected]/a
[email protected]
water...0
soot/solids...5.3
coolant...no

tbn...6.40
oxid...n/a
nitr...n/a

Looking forward to your expert opinions!
 
No clue how many hours. I don't idle the motor at all. I'd say average speed is somewhere around 50 mph, so maybe 400-500 hours?
 
It appears to be holding up well, but the soot concerns me. These are my main questions:

1.) Is the Amsoil cleaning the motor of old soot?
2.) Is the filter not doing the job?
3.) Did the soot "settle" at the bottom of the pan and cause the sample to be thrown off?

It's an expensive oil, and I'm disappointed that they recommend I change it already. I was hoping to get by with a filter change. I'm probably going to invest in the Gulf Coast bypass filter. It's 600 bucks, but seems like it will be well worth it.
 
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It appears to be holding up well, but the soot concerns me.
1.) Is the Amsoil cleaning the motor of old soot?





thats what i'm thinking, not a bad report tho for that many miles & hours.
 
Just one oil filter, but two fuel filters. I'm currently using the Donaldson Extended Life Filter with the time released gel additives. They claim being able to double the miles up to 60k with this filter. I am going to have to cash in on their guarantee it looks like.
 
The only metal wear excessive was chrominum. And it was not that excessive. TBN was great, oil thickened to a 40 weight. I would like to see a oxid and nitrate test next time around, use oil analysers and this service with Amsoil oil is included.

I am sure your tech knows how to to the oil sample so the soot/solids were a high. A bypass filter would help. This oil really did the trick for you. I think I would run another batch just like you did the last time and sample again at 25K. Good to see a sample with this many miles on it..............it's about time!
 
I never did believe in that released gel additives cr*p i think it's just a gimmick..

We use two Fleet guards on my Detroit Series 60,seem well
built,the other equipment they get NAPA's.
 
You know, the more I think about it...the chromnimum has to be rings and/or cylinder walls...don't worry normal range is 1-8 and 12 is abnormal and excessive is 15+ . I think the soot will be under control next time around. But you might want to think about a year round additive such as PowerService and a Bypass filter. How many gallons does your engine system hold?
 
quote: "I am sure your tech knows how to to the oil sample so the soot/solids were a high."

What I was trying to say was...I am sure your tech knows how to do the oil sample. The soot/solids were high and can act like sandpaper if they conglomerate together. Oil Analysers sample kits can be bought when you purchase the oil from Amsoil.
 
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quote: "I am sure your tech knows how to to the oil sample so the soot/solids were a high."

What I was trying to say was...I am sure your tech knows how to do the oil sample. The soot/solids were high and can act like sandpaper if they conglomerate together. Oil Analysers sample kits can be bought when you purchase the oil from Amsoil.




This is an Oil Analyzers report. I ordered the kit right from Amsoil. I will call and ask why they didn't include the other paramaters.

The mechanic that pulled my sample had never used oil analysis before. I know the truck had been in the shop sitting for a couple of days because the driveshaft was pulled out for new u-joints. He told me he did the sample the morning I came to pick it up-and even showed me where the oil had turned his arm black. I had to add in 1.5 gallons when I left. I'm guessing he dropped the plug or something because my truck doesn't use oil at all, and it was fine before I brought it in.
 
I would say you should contact Terry Dyson. When you consider the miles on the rig, the miles on the oil and this is the first run with an ester bearing oil - the metals aren't that bad.

I'm no big rig diesel oil analysis expert, but I agree with the abrasives digging into the rings a bit. With solids that high and silicon relatively low, I would agree that the soot is from blow by and a fairly dirty 500000 mile engine to start with.

My recommendation is to use AutoRx and conventional HDEO for the cleaning and rinse, then switch back to the HDD. AutoRx will go right to the ring area, clean and help seal the rings. Maybe look at some intake cleaning as well.

Just curious - what viscosity does this engine call for?
 
Pablo - The engine is originally spec'd for Valvo PB/PBE 15w40.

The report looks pretty good other than the soot. I am assuming that since this is a 2000 it is an electronic N14? If that is the case and it has a Celect/Celct+ fuel system, go to your local Cummins dealer and buy the "3 gallon" can of the Cummins injector flush and use it. You pull the fuel line off the supply side of the fuel filter and stick it in the can of flush. Then take the return line loose and stick it in the can. Run the engine for about 45 minuets and rehook all the hoses. That may help your soot problem if those injectors have a lot of miles on them. At work we use this flush on 1200 different Cummins and it works fairly well.

The high(er) chromium is most likely from the ring faces/liners. I would expect that at least half of that number would be caused from the high soot level. If this is true, iron will probably go down as well if you get the soot under control. High soot levels can contribute to VERY advanced overhead wear metals, particularly rocker arm to cross head wear.

A bypass filter would help the soot level. You could look into a Luber Finer (or FleetGaurd) 750 converted to PT, Ralph Wood sells one, or a Gulf Coast which are both sized well for your application. I would try and get the soot contamination down.
 
I have not looked at a N14 manual but I am sure standard recommendation is 15W-40 with 10W-30 at lower temps.

Somewhere around here there is a 20,000 mi UOA on my 500,000 mi Cat 3406E running Chevron Delo 400 15w-40 and Soot was listed at or broken ring(s).

An Auto-Rx Cycle plus a cleaner strength dose of Lucas Injector Cleaner might break them free.

Its also possible he took the UOA improperly. It should be taken on a engine that has just been run at operating temperatue and taken at the halfway point during the drain.
If he took it when it first started to drain or toward the tail end of the drain after it had been sitting he may have picked up solids from the bottom of the pan.

You can buy a pump for pulling the samples through the fill tube from CAT for about $40.00. You may be able to get the same through Cummins. CAT says this is better than doing it during the drain and it will allow samples without dumping the oil.
 
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I would say you should contact Terry Dyson. When you consider the miles on the rig, the miles on the oil and this is the first run with an ester bearing oil - the metals aren't that bad.

My recommendation is to use AutoRx and conventional HDEO for the cleaning and rinse, then switch back to the HDD. AutoRx will go right to the ring area, clean and help seal the rings. Maybe look at some intake cleaning as well.





Thanks for your reply. Who is Terry Dyson?
smile.gif


I have looked at the AutoRX website, and it recommends two back to back uses for motors over 100k miles. I definitely want to clear my soot issue, but two flushings will take about 21 gallons of oil, not including the refill with Amsoil. I know this is a drop in the bucket compared to what I could be facing if the soot isn't cleared up, though. Maybe I will just run it through Speedco and get the "cheap stuff".
 
Quote:





An Auto-Rx Cycle plus a cleaner strength dose of Lucas Injector Cleaner might break them free.

Its also possible he took the UOA improperly. It should be taken on a engine that has just been run at operating temperatue and taken at the halfway point during the drain.
If he took it when it first started to drain or toward the tail end of the drain after it had been sitting he may have picked up solids from the bottom of the pan.

You can buy a pump for pulling the samples through the fill tube from CAT for about $40.00. You may be able to get the same through Cummins. CAT says this is better than doing it during the drain and it will allow samples without dumping the oil.




I had already ordered the pump from Amsoil, but it did not arrive in time to take the sample. Since the truck was sitting in the shop for two days, I'm pretty sure he took the sample without running it since it was the last thing he did before pulling it out on his ready line. I would have preferred to take my own sample-but had it in the shop to change out the differential and tranny oils to Amsoil and a PM.

I have run the Lucas stuff through, and also Diesel Kleen's injector/fuel system cleaners. Not sure if it helped at all.

I'll have to get some AutoRX and try it out. Also looking at a couple different bypass filters: the FS2500, and Gulf Coast. FS claims about 2.73 microns, and GC claims down to 1 micron filtration. FS is definitely a smaller unit-which will fit in more places.
 
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