oil for a 12KW diesel generator

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Donald

Donald

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The backup generator has no glow plugs for winter (NY) starting, only has a small heater inline with its liquid cooling. The prior owner just ran this thermostat controlled heater all year, but I would guess it ran only when cold. However my assumption is that it will take more electricily than I want to pay for.

I was thinking of using 15W40 diesel rated synthetic oil to allow the engine to turn over quickly in the winter and hopefully get it started.

A backup plan (plan B) is to use my 5000 KW gas generator to run this heater when the diesel generator will not start and then when its warm, I can start the diesel.

I could also run the heater when high winds or blizzards are expected.

I do not understand the lack of glow plugs.
 
5000kw petrol engine...I'd like to see that !!

The 1000kw diesels at work take up a whole building.
 
What kind of an engine is it? What spec's is the engine?

I would use a 5w40 synthetic if you are worried about cold weather performance and do not want to run the small genset to preheat the bigger engine.
 
So a 12kW generator has what, I'm guessing about 30 HP. Thats pretty respectable, and certainly big enough to be expensive to keep warm all winter. Is it sheltered in any way?

I'll second the recommendation for a 5w-40 synthetic. I even seem to remember that Amsoil's 10w-40 was thinner than the 5w-40 Rotella, might be worth a look.

I wonder if you could rig up an intake air heater, that will certainly aid starting in lieu of glow plugs. Starting batteries will obviously also be a very important aspect of this rigs reliability. Perhaps one of those liquid fuel fired coolant heaters like they use on the big rigs could be used.
 
The 12KW diesel generator is in an outside shed, with the fuel tank next to it, so its outside with no heat, but will not get wind or rain.

I looked at the electric meter for this house when the engine heater was the only thing plugged in (house winterized) and it was going around faster than I would have expected. Not spinning fast, but not crawling either. My guess is its on most of the winter.

It has a normal car battery to start it that is on a float charger all the time.

My gas generator will always start as its pretty new and should be able to heat up the diesel block in a few hours I would hope.
 
Donald,
Yeah, I guessed it was a typo.

I think 15W-40, or 10W-40 would be a good deal.

No glow plugs is wierd, although a guy at work has a diesel tractor with no plugs. It's got an air preheater in the inlet manifold that burns a little diesel to warm it up.
 
For some reason this thread brought back memories from days gone by...

When I was a young child during the winter I used to help my dad start the 290 Cummins in his Peterbuilt with ether. I would spray it in the air intake on the back of the cab while he cranked it. It really worked quite well. A later tractor he owned, a Kenworth with I think a 350 Cummins, had an ether injection pushbutton on the dash and a small propane-tank like canister under the cab. I've heard many bad things about this practice since, but perhaps that only applies to engines with glow plugs, I don't think the 290 or 350 had them. The four and a quarter cat didn't need no stinking ether.

Having started my VW turbo diesel with glow plugs in the NY winter with 15w-40 I highly recommend using the thinnest oil you can safely get away with. Perhaps a thin 40 with a high viscosity index would be best. Or maybe something like the M1 TDT 5w-30, if a 30 weight is acceptable for your engine.
 
I read an article on the net that talked about the possibility of (in very cold engine) fuel gelling inside the cylinder and causing engine damage. Is this a real possibility?

What are the problems (or dangers) in using either in a diesel engine? I assume we are talking about either being normal starting fluid you buy for $2.00 a can.
 
This looks more or less like the system that was in my dad's Kenworth.

http://www.quickstart-ether.com/aboutether.php

It says it contains mineral oil as an upper cylinder lubricant, probably a good idea.

When starting the Peterbuilt we just used a can from the store, not sure if it contained a lubricant.

Certainly a fair amount can be found on ether on the various diesel boards.

I was told that ether can cause "dangerous explosions" in engines with glow plugs, don't know how true that is.
 
No one quite answered one of my questions. Can any harm be done to the engine (not starter or battery) by trying to start a very cold diesel engine when the engine block and fuel are both very cold and no glow plugs.
 
Yes and no. What will happen on a cold start with no glowplugs is incomplete combustion. The air in not hot enough to full light the fuel injected and this will be see by blue (and in your case most likely) and/or white smoke. If the thing is run long enough to warm up it isn't a problem, however if the engine is run long enough without being warmed up you can wash a liner down with fuel.

Obviously if the oil is too thick to pump you will have many lubrication issues. If the oil is at least sufficiently viscus to move then you are ok. Obviously the oil with the lowest temp pumpability (while retaining appropriate hot viscosity) rating would be helpful here.

Fuel will not gel inside the cylinder. Fuel will gel in the tank/lines/filter/pump. Fuel gelling isn't necessarily harmful, you just need to heat the fuel enough for it to "un gel," that is for the waxes to go back into solution.

The problem with ether is cylinder pressures. Ether basically explodes in a diesel, it doesn't really burn. This leads to very high cylinder pressures. If ether is used frequently it can lead to head gasket/head bolt problems, broken pistons and bent rods. Using ether in moderation occasionally is acceptable, however only as a last resort in my opinion.

I hope I have better answered your question, if not I can try and be more specific if you need.
 
1040Wreckerman - in ref. to your first paragraph.

Lets say its 30F out and I need to start the generator. Do I try and start it wihout warming up the block? If it does not start can I use either? What about if its 20F or 10F or 0F?

Concerned about your statement saying of its run long enough without warming up can wash a liner down with fuel. Can you explain more? I assume you mean by warming it up, pre-warming it before starting vs running the engine at idle with no load waiting until its warm, then applying a load.
 
I think what 1040Wreckerman ment by washing down the cylinder walls is that it basically un-breaks in your ring/liner. I was working at a International dealer when Cummins first released the 600 ISX engine. Had a guy come back in after about 8 month's on his new truck and told us that it was still burning oil at the rate of about 1 gallon per 1,000 miles. After some basic checks I gave the tech hotline they had at the time for ISX problems a call and talked with a enginer. He had me hook up our laptop and he looked at the engine data via a internet connection. He noticed that the truck was run during the day and sat for 8 to 10 hours per day at idle. After talking with the driver we realized he was driving during the day and leaving the truck idle all night to keep heat and power. Basically the engine never broke in. He would drive during the day and the engine would start to break in and then let it idle all night and it would "wash the cylinder walls". After installing a ProHeat APU heating unit on the truck the driver came back about a month later and said that in less than a week after installing the APU heater the engine stoped burning oil. Not running a engine to full engine temp all the time can do the same thing. So to prevent this anytime you start the engine let it warm up completly to operting temp.

Can you do any damage starting a cold diesel. I doubt you will at 30F. At 0F it's possible. I would check into getting a block heater.

Glow plugs. You will rarely ever see glow plugs on a large diesel engine. They are usually only found on smaller diesel engines. Larger engines use a intake heater.
 
I will share an experience I noted a year back when I was out in the bush for 2 months, then you can make your own observations:
We arrived in camp about early September. Most of the Gennies there were 10kw models. Not new, but not aged, either. The frost started coming end Sept early Oct. It was around this time we started to have problems with the gens overheating. They would just conk out-usually at 4 in the morning. No one really knew what to make of it, but one person had seen it before. he mentioned that if we changed the oil over to 10w30 diesel oil, the problem would go away. I flat out disputed this and told him so. He never really argued and let me to my own opinion. I ended up going off to another job, but the guy who carried on ended up changing the oil and using the 10w30. From then on in, we no longer encountered the problem.
Moral of the story? Maybe for an older geny try 10w30 for temps below freezing and 15w40 for above, these engines are smaller and sometimes fussy.
just my 2 cents, feel free to make your own opinion.
 
This generator has a heater inline with the cooling system so the entire will be warm if the heater is left on. But I am not sure I want to leave the heater plugged in for 24 hours a day for all winter (in NY) so it will start for the one or two times I need to start it each winter.
 
Donald,

Don't forget to use "winter grade" fuel for your unit. It is formulated to reduce gelling and assist cold starting compared to the "summer grade". Otherwise, you might want to use a good additive to your fuel - that's another topic.

We start our farm tractors with cold engines without problems - we let them warm up before putting them under load.

Also, some diesels start very easy even when cold. My John Deeres start like they are gasoline engines. Maybe give yours a try when cold to see if your concerns are unfounded.

Just some ideas.
 
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