New Home Generator System Purchase

[benjamming]

I am looking at a backup power system for our new house. I want something around 15 kW and powered by LP. What I have found thus far:

Generac 16 kW Air Cooled for ~ $4000 not including automatic transfer switch & group 26 battery. It has an aluminum enclosure and a 2-year warranty. The engine is a Generac OHVI V-twin 2-cylinder 992cc.

Coleman Powermate 15 kW Liquid Cooled for ~ $6000 with Briggs & Stratton Dihatsu 3 cylinder 950 cc engine not including automatic transfer switch. It has a steel enclosure and 3-year/1500 hour warranty.

Briggs & Stratton 15 kW Air Cooled for ~ $4000 not including a ~ $1300 200-amp automatic transfer switch. It has a 895cc Vanguard engine and a 4-year warranty.

Kohler 15 kW Liquid Cooled for ~ $9800 not including a transfer switch. It has a 2-year warranty. The engine is a GM 1.6L 4-cylinder.

Does anyone have any experience with these units or just advice in general? The Generac system has a $200 rebate until Oct-31-2006.

 

[Pablo]

I have not dealt with those exact models.

Kohler makes a good product but they are subject to silly little errors (funky part choices, etc)

Generac tries hard. Seems like the cheap out on components.

Coleman doesn't provide great customer service, but they may have changed.

I don't know B&S generators.

Which one is the most quiet?

One thing for sure - run the thing and maintain it frequently. (Unlike the street side Alpha units (cable power back up) with Kohlers.....ask me how I know)

 

[Mike_dup1]

I don't have any experience with backup home generators. But on the subject of safety, I just read something in my electrical bill about electrocution and carbon monoxide poisoning of home owners with generator back up systems. Improper installation and maintenance were listed as the prime reasons. They have to inspected and maintained often to be safe.

 

[irq3]

One of the best places to purchase them is amazon.com. They have free shipping and free lift gate delivery. There are plenty of reviews to read too.

The only advice with a new house is to plan the installation. It is easier before any electrical work has started. I would recommend the Briggs & Stratton 15kw (4 year warranty) with a "whole house" transfer switch. It is one of the quietest and has the best warranty. The transfer switch installs right after the meter. There are two types; one with a utility disconnect and one without. Check with your electrician. It may be cheaper to purchase a meter socket with the utility disconnect (verses a transfer switch with a disconnect). This way you do not have to worry about selecting which critical circuits are on emergency power. Generac usually has a sub-panel type transfer switch (selected circuits only on emergency power). With the Briggs, you could purchase the transfer switch now and the generator later. If you go with the Generac (with a sub-panel) plan the critical circuits accordingly.

 

[benjamming]

Thanks for all the great responses thus far. I have found the Generac system for $3450 minus $200 rebate = $3250. The B&S unit is fairly new as well as the Generac 16 kW air cooled unit. The 13 kW air cooled units were the largest from B&S & Generac until recently. I like that the Generac is an aluminum unit so no rust & has lockable enclosure. However, B&S has a managed power system that seems pretty neat. But I am wondering about the friendliness to computers, etc from the B&S. It doesn't say that it has an electronic governor system like the Generac does.

Pablo:
Generac: 61 dB(A) at 23' for weekly exercise
72 dB(A) at 23' at full load
Coleman: 72 dB(A) at 23'
B&S: 65 dB(A) at 23'
Kohler: 65 dB(A) at 23'

Mike:
Correctly wiring an automatic transfer switch will solve the electrocution problem. The unit is a pad mounted unit outside next to the York dual fuel heat pump so CO will not be a problem.

irq3,
Thanks for the tip on the disconnect. I didn't want to have to dedicate certain circuits to the generator. So, a whole house transfer switch would solve that. I can buy an indoor wattage meter so the generator doesn't overload. Heck, even if it does overload it will just shut down. I'll turn off a few things and fire it back up.

 

[Car Luver]

i installed panels in both the houses I have owned. Not the automatic type though.I ahve a 7000 watt generator. Its set up to run 10 circuits. I already have mine ready to go. tuned it up a couple of weeks ago. I in 10 years I have probably used it 6 or 7 times.it eerie when the whole block is dark except for your house.I have 30 gallons of gas stored for it.

When you first get it some will tell you you're crazy for wasting money on that. Those people are the first to come over to enjoy it.

one time it was 30 degrees and no power on the whols street. except for me of course. power did not come on for 3 days.

My opinion is unless you are in the boonies or have a record of long power outages a wheeld generator will serve for just a well.

 

[benjamming]

I am in the boonies with a bad record for power outages. Our power is from an old out-dated co-op.
Yeah, I've had several folks tell me that "ahh you don't need one especially not that big". Ok. We'll see when my wife is baking cookies on a "cold & powerless" day.

Maintaining the unit will not be a problem. I am afterall a member of BITOG. UOA on a generator... hmm...

I also looked at Honda & Yamaha but they don't make anything large enough.

Does anyone know anything about the Vanguard engine that's on the B&S? I'm suprised it's not a B&S engine. I guess that's why there's not much info about it on the B&S website.

The B&S generator is rated for 18.5 kW surge. The Generac doesn't specify a surge capacity.

 

[Rand]

For a computer just make sure you have an "online" type ups unit that conditions the power... then it wont matter if the generator is providing somewhat "dirty" power.

(same for any hi-buck items ie large plasma tv)

 

[Best F100]

Yes. I have the 15kw air cooled Generac. I have owned this one going on 3 years. I think the major difference between the 16kw is the aluminum "doghouse" enclosure and slightly larger kw output. The aluminum is a nice upgrade because I have seen a few of these with surface rust on the steel versions after a few years.

I am pretty sure that the Briggs & Stratton generator that you mention is the same generator as the Generac - kind of like a Mercury is a Ford with a different name and higher price tag. Both are powered by the same Briggs engine.

We have had power outages each year for 3 years, in both 10F weather as well as 95F weather. Outages have been for up to 3 days in each instance.

I would recommend the Generac for the money. No problems with mine. After much questioning of Generacs toll free number, I finally got them to tell me that this generator is rated for 3000 hours. - supposivedly the longest in the industry for an air cooled standby generator. They said their larger liquid cooled standby generators were rated for 15,000 hours. Of course you are paying at least double the $$$ for their liquid cooled versions. Now at this rate, I should be a very old man before I hit my 3000 hours. They told me that I could expect for exhaust valves to be the first thing to wear, after that amount of hours. Someone else, with more background and knowledge of this part can tell me if this is an oil lubricated part or not. You may put on the hours at a faster rate and may want the liquid cooled version. If so, you may want the liquid cooled Coleman. I am feeding my generator GC (green) and Mobil 1Racing 0W30. (Overkill, I know - but it is a cheap overkill, if it will extend the life). Ironically, I happen to own that 3 cylinder Daihatsu engine as well. Mine is in a 3 wheeled, '94 Cushman (Meter Maid) Truckster. Great reliable engine. Also, the liquid cooled versions are supposeed to be noticably quieter. To me, generator noise is like music when you have no power for three days in 95F weather and can't flush your toilets (septic system) or open the refrigerator. My wife says she has done enought of that indoor camping thing.

 

[JHZR2]

Just some outside insight in case you care, my fiancee is from the USVI. They have hurricanes, and just routinely loose power for long periods of time.

They used to have a large gasoline generator. It never lasted as long as they liked, due to its efficiency.

THey replaced it with a ~6kWe diesel genset, and couldnt be happier. It runs and runs, is very robust, and provides more than enough power to run what they need (including a number of AC units).

I know you wated LP, but I would suggest a diesel genset, and routinely exercise it by going 'off the grid'. I think the efficiency will pay off.

JMH

 

[JTK]

Quote:

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..Does anyone know anything about the Vanguard engine that's on the B&S? I'm suprised it's not a B&S engine...

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Vanguard is briggs and stratton's top of the line engine series. A gasoline vanguard can go 3000hrs, NG or LPG should go longer.

Joel

 

[Best F100]

I forgot to add. Mine is natural gas fueled.

 

[benjamming]

Wow that liquid cooled life rating is quite a bit more than what I expected vs. the air cooled. 3000 hours is about 5 years assuming 48 hours emergency duty per year with 15 minutes every week for the exercise routine. That's not too good IMHO.

Does your generator have an hour meter? I don't see that specified anywhere in their literature.

Thanks for the experience update on your generator.

JHZR2,
I will have a 1000-gal underground propane tank so I can't really justify a diesel generator.

 

[JTK]

Quote:

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...3000 hours is about 5 years assuming 48 hours emergency duty per year with 15 minutes every week for the exercise routine. That's not too good IMHO...

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13hrs of exersize/yr + 48hrs run time = 61hrs/yr. 3000/61 = 49yrs!

Joel

 

[Best F100]

You can get an hour meter for less than $50. I just got mine from eBay a month ago. None of the generators I know of come with them.

 

[benjamming]

Quote:

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Quote:

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...3000 hours is about 5 years assuming 48 hours emergency duty per year with 15 minutes every week for the exercise routine. That's not too good IMHO...

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13hrs of exersize/yr + 48hrs run time = 61hrs/yr. 3000/61 = 49yrs!

Joel

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Doh!

Yep, thanks for the correction.

 

[irq3]

benjamming:

Both the Generac and Briggs have an automatic 7 day weekly exerciser. They run once a week (at the time of your choice) without transferring the load.

The Briggs web site homegeneratorsystems.com lists the 15KW generator as "computer friendly".

As for an hour meter, Sendec and Tinytach are the most popular. The Sendec one breaks the time down into tenth's of an hour, Tinytach does not. It is very useful for oil changes and to know how long the power is out.

Good choice on the 1,000 gallon propane tank! It actually only holds about 800 gallons full (80%). I would not let it get lower than half full if you plan on using the genset for an extended period of time. The rule of thumb is it takes 2HP to generate 1000 watts of power. A 16KW genset would need close to a 32HP engine. This would rate it around 320,000 BTU/HR on propane (full load). Propane contains about 92,000 BTU/HR per gallon. This genset would use about 3.5 gallons an hour at full load. That is the worst case scenario. You almost never run it at full load anyway.

 

[416Rigby]

I've got a 14KW diesel genset hooked to my house. It's got a sound-attenuated enclosure, and an ASCO 100amp transfer switch. It runs everything, including 3.5 ton AC unit, to the 5 ton pool heater, without a problem. Diesels handle heavy loads quite well, and use very little fuel. At full-load, the unit uses barely 1 gallon per hour. If you are going to be using your genset for more than 50 hours a year, I would suggest getting a diesel unit.
As for the Vanguard engines, they are made in Japan for B&S. They are good quality units.

 

[benjamming]

Quote:

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The transfer switch installs right after the meter. There are two types; one with a utility disconnect and one without. Check with your electrician. It may be cheaper to purchase a meter socket with the utility disconnect (verses a transfer switch with a disconnect). This way you do not have to worry about selecting which critical circuits are on emergency power. Generac usually has a sub-panel type transfer switch (selected circuits only on emergency power). With the Briggs, you could purchase the transfer switch now and the generator later. If you go with the Generac (with a sub-panel) plan the critical circuits accordingly.

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Wouldn't a utility disconnect do away with any automatic transfer of power? Wouldn't that feed back to the transformer on the pole? I want the automatic transfer switch.

The Generac model 5255 doesn't include the transfer switch.

Also, the B&S only has 18,500W surge capacity. That seems pretty low. I thought you normally want a 2:1 ratio or even 3:1 but that won't happen with an air cooled unit.

 

[Magnatic]

I have a B&S 12kW NG model that was installed last year. It is a joint project between B&S and Cutler-Hammer It has performed flawlessly with about 3 power outages in the last 12 months. The B&S unit was recommended by a friend who is in the heat/a/c business. He has had one longer than I. The catch is that the units are available through B&S dealers and Cutler-Hammer dealers. Cutler-Hammer has different levels of marketing which makes them more expensive. I purchased from a B&S dealer for less than the wholesale price my friend could purchase it through his Cutler-Hammer contacts. I am in a rural area and the dealer has sold countless units with not one problem. He recommends synthetic oil changed first at the 5-10 hour interval and then at least yearly. He is coming to do the annual diagnostic, circuit and output check in the next couple of weeks.