2006 Dodge Diesel Need Help On By Pass Filter !

[md_lucky_13]

I think you are missing my point.

I'm not arguing that the B50 has better filtration then the toilet paper..

I'm saying that the only advantage that TP has over the b50 IS filtration.

The B50 is cheaper (Even if you buy a USED product off flea-bay the filter and base for the b50 is still significantly cheaper)

For most of us, the B50 is going to be cheaper to maintain. 100,000 is just a good rule of thumb..

For TP @ 5,000 mile intervals (I personally drive a diesel truck and have my doubts if it would last to those miles.. But I will bite the bait.

)

In 100,000 miles you have 20 changes. 20 Changes at .50 = $10. I don't know what a roll of TP costs, so I guess .50 seems to be accepted? On top of that, you have 20 quarts of oil to replace.. $2 a quart for that? $40

In 100,000 miles with a B50, you change the oil 10 times. At $5 per filter, that’s $50. 10 quarts of oil, $20.

So you can figure a TP element will end up costing you $50 for 100,000 miles of service and a B50 will cost you $70 for 100,000 miles of service.

a $20 difference per 100,000 miles.

So, if you bought a NEW motor guard it will take 500,000 miles to BREAK EVEN with the B50.. FIVE-HUNDRED-THOUSAND-MILES.

If you bought it off e-bay for $80, it will take 250,000 to BREAK EVEN with the B50.

"No, wait a minute. That is what I would be thinking if I actually believed the non-factual, non-experience based, imagination-induced ramblings of certain posters above."

Please explain what is non-factual and non-experience based about what I have posted.. Math doesn't lie.

Heck, I will even concede that with enough practice and patients, maybe changing a TP element could be as easy as the contained element.. But with my current setup I'm certain I couldn't have an easier way to change the element.. I use the zip lock bag trick on both the full flow and bypass, so it just seems logical to me at this point.

I'm also missing your "facts." Even if soot is 1-3um (and, for the record, the B50 has a 2um nominal rating) how much damage is a 3um particle going to cause?

Let me guess. You will jump on the "those soot particles can band together and then become a problem" wagon.. Okay Dokay, so they band together to a whopping 8um and are then pulled out of the stream by the B50.

So I have got to ask. Since it is NOT cost effective to put a TP bypass on a vehicle, where IS the advantage?

The normal size of a human red blood cell is 7-8 microns. (http://www.carnicom.com/bio3.htm) Everyone keeps jumping up and down on micron rating, but I think we have REALLY lost sight of exactly what size particles we are talking about.

Can you show me that getting anything below 8um out of the oil is actually beneficial? As I have showed (twice now) it is not cost beneficial, so it better have another advantage.. That is really the only fact that I'm looking for.

 

[acewiza]

Well, to begin your math is wrong. The roll of TP is more like $.10, and my top ups are about a half quart, so plz start over...

 

[md_lucky_13]

Basically cut those numbers in half then. (unless you really want to calculate out an $8 difference for cost of TP over 100,000 miles...)

A New motor guard is only going to take 250,000 miles to break even with the b50.

A used one is going to take 125,000.

And that’s tailoring numbers entirely to you!!
IE: a 5,000 mile TP change and a 1/2 quart top off..

Realize that if you change your TP element every 3,000 miles instead of the 5,000 I used for the example then you end up almost right back at 500,000 and 250,000 respectively...

And if you change the TP every 3,000 and it does end up taking a full quart of oil.. Sheesh, the entire body will fall apart before you ever get close to breaking even with the B50.

So what else is wrong? Or, have I hit the nail right square on top of the head.. The only advantage TP has over the B50 is that it can filter bacteria and a limited number of virus out of plasma instead of just red blood cells..

And man.. when you put it into perspective like that.. how much advantage is there for the cost?

 

[acewiza]

OK then, if you want contrive the numbers in a very general way, that is fine. Here is how they work out for me VERY SPECIFICALLY IN ACTUAL PRACTICE on three low-mileage vehicles I presently have in service:

MG cost = $55 (converted air filter)
Annual TP change = .10
Annual half qt. of oil = $2
Total cost 1st year: = $57.10
Annual cost every year thereafter = $2.10
Total cost after your astounding half million miles?

Don't know. They'll never be driven that far. I'm talking practice, not theory. What was the cost of that Baldwin filter again?

 

[md_lucky_13]

Oh man.. I'm probably starting to look like an ________ when I keep doing this, but I just can't help it. It really isn't my intention to be a jerk, but the numbers just can never add up in your favor.

If your first year cost is $57.10, I will give you $2.90 so I can get an even $60.. just because I'm not good at math.

Your anual cost is $2.10 cents. So you do 1 filter change per yet.. I will round that up to 5,000 miles per year (1 change = 5,000 miles on TP + 1/2 quart oil)


Under YOUR curcumstances, the B50 would have cost you $30 initial investment to your $60 TP investment.

At 5,000 miles per year.. 10,000 miles between changes..

You could have used the B50 FOR ENTIRELY FREE for SIX FULL YEARS.

6 Years just to break even with the INITIAL COST of the TP unit.. Now.. If you factor in the money you spent on upkeep over those 6 years verus the money you would have spent on the B50... Thats and aditional 2 years you could have driven for FREE before you broke even..

So.. it takes about 8 years to break even.. And thats figuring your uber cheap $55 cost.





Are there any other advantages?

 

[acewiza]

But you're missing the point. I'm investing in my engine, not the filtering system.

 

[acewiza]

What was the cost of that filter element again?

 

[md_lucky_13]

But is that investment worth it?

The TP costs more in any way you look at it. Is that extra cost worth anything when talking about particles that are the size of red blood cells, bacteria, and viruses.. ?

 

[md_lucky_13]

This not being able to edit SUCKS..

This is going to practically end up as a PM conversation at this rate... Not a fan of this new board..

The filters are about $4.20 each.. so $5.

 

[acewiza]

So I pay $30 to $70 more for a filter that is about 5-7x better, and it costs me how much less per year to maintain?

Guess I still don't get it.

 

[md_lucky_13]

"So I pay $30 to $70 more for a filter that is about 5-7x better"


Just show me that it is 5-7x better and I will entirely drop this subject and admit out loud to anyone that reads this thread that you are correct.

The TP filters out particles that are 5-7 microns SMALLER.. But I want to see how filtering out particles that are SMALLER THEN A RED BLOOD CELL is beneficial at an increased cost.. no matter what the cost.. just simply an increased cost.

Thats all you need to shut me up for good.

 

[acewiza]

You wanna talk about the PT (Gulf Coast 01) on my Cummins that takes about six quarts of oil? Bet that'll generate some whopping big numbers for sure!

 

[acewiza]

I don't want you to admit anything - different strokes for different folks. Personally, I don't care about minor variations in cost, ROI or any of that stuff. I just prefer to think I am getting the best possible filtration. You know the old saying: "you get what you pay for."

And in this case I believe the payment is a moot point, eiher way.

 

[md_lucky_13]

Agree to Disagree!

 

[Nebraskan]

What an interesting thread!

In all your figuring above you both keep tackling about changing oil at $2.00 / quart. I'm personally a synthetic guy, so that figure is closer to $6.00 quart. I also am not saying that TP is not a good filtration system. I am just saying that I like the benefit of buying a spin on filter. I really like the Amsoil filters, but not at 30.00 some dollars. I don't really see anything wrong with the Oil Guard or the Gulf Coast either. Only, Gulf Coast does not make a filter for automobiles, just trucks. One thing I found extremely interesting, and I have know many Amsoil dealers and users that have said the same thing. Change the filters, but keep the oil. Gulf Coast had a truck (probably still running) that had one unnecessary oil change in over 1 million miles. When they tore it down at the 1 million mile mark they replaced the piston rings and put the same used oil back in there again.

I am interested in putting in a filtration system, single or dual, that uses B50 spin on and changing the filters (not the oil) on the regular basis. I've got a 1996 Buick PA with 150,000 miles and I really think once I get it set up, I will change the oil for the last time on this car. Add when the filters are changed out, but no more oil changes. I doubt that I will ever put another 150,000 miles on this car.. I might, but more than likely it will get sold as I buy a little newer year car for driving. The motor is only one thing out here in Michigan. Our salty roads in winter can eat a car alive. Ball joints, and other mechanical things, including electronic things can eventually become more bothersome that the lifespan of the engine will condone. Why have an engine with all this extreme filtered oil sitting on a rust bucket?

BTW I think TP are pretty good filters.

I have seen them on vehicles when I was much younger. They, and oil bath air filters were the main thing when I was a kid. Unfortunately, over time, they also got rid of the oil bath filter, which I thought was a whole lot better than any of the filters that are out there today. Just messier to deal with. I've never owned a TP filter and I only go off what I have seen on some websites and heard in here. Even if channeling was not a problem, ever, I just cannot see worrying about sub micron particles. Not when there are probably 99.9 % of the vehicles running around on the road today that have NO bypass filter whatsoever. That don't mean there's not extra benefits to BP, as I truly believe there is, just the majority of vehicles put on extremely long miles and many are totaled from accidents, other abuses, or age long before the engine was ever in need of rebuild.

And I TOO hate that you cannot go back and edit once it is posted

 

[Nebraskan]

BTW I'm getting my Baldwin B50 for $4.30 ea

 

[Nebraskan]

Whatever happened to Col. the original poster ??

 

[acewiza]

Quote:

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What an interesting thread!

In all your figuring above you both keep tackling about changing oil at $2.00 / quart.

---

That $2 I mentioned was for half a quart. That's how much it takes for a MG change. Strange how claculations for long terms and high numbers get doubled or cut in half, depending on how you measure. Anyway, it's a little more now, I think. Also, I was informed by the wife that the last time I bought the TP must've been 10 years ago, because she's paying about .35/roll. Go figure.

 

[acewiza]

So it looks like I can change the MG about fifteen times for the cost of one Baldwin change. And OBTW, have captured some incredibly large number of smaller contaminant particles. Should go into exponential notation territory, numberwise I'd think. Gonna need Blackstone to confirm that one before we start arguing about it, though...

 

[acewiza]

And yes, that half a quart fifteen times adds up, costwise. But it also makes for a nice smooth TBN curve over a loooong OCI. Somewhat the different from what I'd expect the Oilguard folks will be experiencing as they try to stretch those filter change intervals to mitigate the scary high cost of those elements. I've even seen talk of cleaning and re-using the elements! Wow.

Everything's a trade-off. What compromises do you want to make for your engine?