why waste corn by making ethanol?

oilyriser · Jul 9, 2006

Burn it directly.

This isn't quite the place for this topic, since it's not quite a gasoline engine, but...

Making ethanol from corn wastes roughly 3/4 of the energy just processing the stuff. Make a car like this:

1. battery-electric drivetrain
2. corn burning stove
3. steam engine or stirling engine

Hey, you could run it on coal pellets, which is even cheaper, if you want. Corn costs less than 1/4 the price of gasoline, per energy. The steam/stirling cycle engine might be kind of heavy, but the batteries would give the extra power to move the best when you need to.

Pablo · Jul 9, 2006

These things can be done. Expensive but may be the only way in the future.

Not everyone has corn, plus "burning" at home for power has it's own set of problems. Steam engine? Yikes!

Shannow · Jul 9, 2006

I've read that you can buy corn fired furnaces for home heating.

XS650 · Jul 9, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by oilyriser:
Burn it directly.

This isn't quite the place for this topic, since it's not quite a gasoline engine, but...

Making ethanol from corn wastes roughly 3/4 of the energy just processing the stuff. Make a car like this:

1. battery-electric drivetrain
2. corn burning stove
3. steam engine or stirling engine

Good point. With that line of thought...if you are considering fueling your car by burning bio-mass directly in the car, the first question should "What are the best bio-mass fuels."

I doubt that corn would appear on the first page of a typed list of bio-mass fuels...unless ADM paid a bunch of Congress-critters to make the list.

One way to use bio-mass to run an IC engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator

Shannow · Jul 9, 2006

XS650,
my Grandad had one of those in the garage that he ran his cars on through the War (WWII). He later gave it to a lady, and converted it to a gas heater.

I couldn't work out why he kept a few hundred used spark plugs unti I realised what he went through maintenance wise through the war.

Systems like that are pretty well suited to agriculture, where things are started, run for 8-10 hours, rather than commuter vehicles.

FEMA have a pretty good paper on the use of, and manufacture of wood gas systems.

oilyriser · Jul 15, 2006

If your fuel "tank" ruptures in an accident, you can get a herd of goats to clean up the spill. With edible biomass, you'd need to direct some exhaust gas into the fuel storage to kill off bugs and vermin. If you have a small heat engine that's 35% efficient, to get 20 hp average mechanical power you'd need about 145,000 BTU/hr of heat from the biomass stove. That's about twice the size of a typical home pellet stove.

beanoil · Dec 14, 2006

Quote:

I've read that you can buy corn fired furnaces for home heating.

I've seen those too. An auger system move the corn pellets from a storage bin to the combustion chamber. There are discoveries to be made, we just haven't found them yet. There are current experiments going on with cold fusion for energy production that do show energy generation at room temps. While corn to fuel may currently indicate a negative energy total, corn is renewable, and more efficient ways to convert it to a viable fuel source will probably be found. Same goes for sugar, other plant materials, and waste streams.

Tempest · Jan 8, 2007

Quote:

There are current experiments going on with cold fusion for energy production that do show energy generation at room temps.

Got a link?

DINO_NO · Mar 9, 2007

Make a car like this:
1. battery-electric drivetrain
2. corn burning stove
3. steam engine or stirling engine

Cars are not made like this. (duh) Ethanol makes children less likely to develop cancer when they are walking home along the highway.
and i don't think stoves are going to burn corn
steam engines are fueled with coal, to generate steam
and battery electric drivetrains are out there, but i think the amout of SUV old cars, the new sedans and F150's rules the road.

Shannow · Mar 9, 2007

Tempest,
US Navy is still experimenting on Cold Fusion, and some are reporting positive findings.

http://space.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524911.600

oilyriser · Mar 9, 2007

Even better, at least in winter, is to charge your electric vehicle with a cogeneration system at home, like one of these:
http://www.climate-energy.com/products.asp
And if it ran on corn....

Lonnie · Mar 9, 2007

You can always pop the corn.

oilyriser · Mar 10, 2007

images of popcorn streaming out the exhaust pipe of a car...

Lonnie · Mar 10, 2007

Just wait until something like corn-fuel becomes a reality. Can you imagine having to fight a hungry pig for a tank of fuel. If you think the Arabs are crooks, wait 'till ADM gets things rolling. And if your SUV is getting bad mileage now, wait until you try this stuff. I'd rather deal with CNG but that won't do because it works and is available. Legislators need something new and exciting. At least that's what ADM is telling these guys. The real solution is to dig up the inventor of the 100mpg carburetor that Standard Oil buried. That combined with the oil from the guy in Las Vegas that you change every 40k miles and we're in business. I say eat the corn and keep the pigs happy.

Steve S · Mar 10, 2007

Quote:

Just wait until something like corn-fuel becomes a reality. Can you imagine having to fight a hungry pig for a tank of fuel. If you think the Arabs are crooks, wait 'till ADM gets things rolling. And if your SUV is getting bad mileage now, wait until you try this stuff. I'd rather deal with CNG but that won't do because it works and is available. Legislators need something new and exciting. At least that's what ADM is telling these guys.

.

oilyriser · Mar 11, 2007

I wonder what kind of turbo boost you could run if you used a mix of 75% ethanol, 25% water. Maybe that would make it efficient enough to consider a real fuel.

GT Mike · May 1, 2007

Quote:

I wonder what kind of turbo boost you could run if you used a mix of 75% ethanol, 25% water. Maybe that would make it efficient enough to consider a real fuel.

Google "aquanol" and you'll have your answer. It's being done already, and the expirimental engines look to be producing decent power and virtually no emissions.

oilyriser · May 6, 2007

So if all the money that was being poured into ethanol subsidies were put into developing this technology...

GT Mike · May 9, 2007

Quote:

And if your SUV is getting bad mileage now, wait until you try this stuff.

Really??!? Lemme check...My Explorer is rated at 15/20 on gasoline, and so far my worst MPG tank of E85 has delivered 13.4 with a very heavy foot, and my best has been 17.3
Guys I talked to that have regular gas burner Explorers of similar year and options have told me they rarely get over 18 MPG, and that usually it's more like 15-16 MPG.

I've never ran gasoline in mine yet. Since E85 is right now $1.10/gallon cheaper than regular gasoline, why bother? My MPG is acceptable by Explorer's standards, and considering I got rid of a Durango that got even worse MPG than I'm getting now, I'm doing the happy dance every time I fill up!
I figure I'm saving at least $100 a month on fuel costs by running E85.

Granted, not all E85 is this cheap here...Only select stations that are owned by the ethanol plant in town sell it this cheap. Other stations are ~30 cents per gallon less than regular gasoline.
I'd still run it though...It smells nice, and delivers a little better performance than 87 octane in this engine. Ford claims they gained 5 HP and 7 lbs/ft torque on E85 compared to regular 87 octane. In fact, the 210 HP rating this engine is advertised as having was measured on E85, not gasoline.

Dominic · May 14, 2007

When the taxpayers stop subsidizing E85, your fuel cost will skyrocket GT Mike. Its only cheap for a limited time only.

why waste corn by making ethanol?

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