thanks for the info thooks..unless i'm mistaken though, i thought i read where ....maybe it was in on the taurus website, or some other litature, that all thier new handguns were +p rated? anyhow, with the price of those golden sabres, you can bet they won't see much range time! lol. i can imagine the recoil might be on the nasty side. the gun weighs 17oz empty, plus the 2" barrel. when i was a younger man, i owned a ruger blackhawk .357mag. that was a fun one to blast away with. we were young and dumb, never wore ear protection, sometimes deaf for several days after a session, and always used full bore .357's, never the milder .38's. didn't seem as much fun at the time i guess. i do remember that dang .357 as being very acurate though. i used to use silvertips. i think they were also 125grs and once in a while we'd use the 158's..but i think those were nyclads..sold it cheap to a bud. wish i still owned it. this new 85 ultra lite is very consealable and comfortable to carry though, the blackhawk was on the heavyish side. thanks again guy. penz