M1 0W-20 for oiling rifle? Maintenance procedures?

[metroplex]

Has anyone used M1 0W-20 for oiling their rifles? It seems like thin enough oil, and the synthetic qualities + Moly would make a good candidate for rifle lubing... right?

Break Free CLP has been heralded as one of the best cleaner/luber for rifles, and its chief component is a PAO synthetic oil.
It smells totally nasty but it appears to lube very well.

I have Rem Oil, Militec-1, Break Free CLP, and I'm thinking about trying M1 0W-20 or another M1... primarily because of how well it performs under severe engine conditions and how cheap it is compared to gun oils.

Does anyone use ATF for slides instead of grease?

I've been thinking about using brake cleaner but I'm afraid its going to ruin plastic handguard finishes, and metal finishes.

 

[Chris B.]

I hav some Militec and it is a great lube but poor in rust protection. Dispite what Militec claimes it has just about 0 corrosion protection. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[metroplex]

Thanks Chris.

I'll try the CLP Breakfree that I have and work from there. It looks like a tried and true product.

I could also give M1 15W-50 a shot, I have about 3-4 qt of that stuff.

 

[Chris B.]

The lubes I have been testing are:

BreakFree
FP-10
Hoppes
Tetra
Butches Gun oil
TW25B

So far Tetra is the slickest by quiet a bit. Testing still on going.

 

[WDP]

There is a reason they call M1 MOTOR OIL, it is for engines not guns. Even if you shoot and clean multiple guns every day, the proper firearms lubricant is an insignificant cost. M1 will collect dirt and cause more wear than dry operating parts. Stay with the Militec, after 20+ years of gunsmith work I have found none better. Don't like the small bottle prices? Here is a secret, the firearms lube is the same as the industrial lube in the larger bottles. Go to Lanigan Performance and order a pint for about $34, you will not use it up in your lifetime.

WDP

 

[metroplex]

What prevents Militec from attracting dirt? They say to wipe off excess militec because it adheres to the metal.

What's used in militec anyhow? Moly sulfide?

[ June 28, 2004, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: metroplex ]

 

[metroplex]

I found some interesting info from the MSDS for Militec-1.

The flash point is 455F, and when it burns it emits CO and HCl.

IIRC HCl is a corrosive acid, although I am unsure of how strong it is compared to HF on bores... If CLP produces HF above 617F, and Militec-1 produces HCl above 455F, which is better?

From what I can see, no one is dumping anything. Break Free CLP meets MIL-L-63460D along with several other products, I could not find Militec-1 among these products that meets this spec. If you know of something I don't and wish to share it, please do so.

[ June 29, 2004, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: metroplex ]

 

[WDP]

The military is dumping Breakfree because of the mass failures of the M16 in the desert. They along with many government agencies are going with the Militec because it works. True it isn't much of a rust deterent but that is what I use the Breakfree for.

WDP

 

[jhnrckr]

I have been using mobile drive clean 5-30 dino as an experiment, I don't think Synthetic versions will offer any more protection but if you have an open bottle why not. I clean my guns after every shooting session and I spray out my barrels with brake cleaner or carb cleaner and wipe out everying thing else with remington wonderlube. I did have a problem with the brake cleaner stripping off a little of a camo finish that was laid on over wood furniture on a CETME, luckily it is not noticable and this is the only problem I have had, so be careful where you spray it and where it drips. Back to the 5-30 experiment, it seems to cling to metal parts better that gun oils, it is a whole lot cheaper but a drop in the bucket when compared to an afternoon of ammo. I have been shooting for a lot of years and I have owned a lot of guns. One thing I have never ever seen is a gun that wore out due to a lack of lubrication. Pretty much any oil will work, I just like to play around like everyone else on this site.

 

[Mystic]

WDP, if you don't mind I would like to ask you some questions. You say you have been a gunsmith for 20+ years and that is impressive.

Personally I have been trying to decide on a good lubricant for my guns. My Dad's old shotgun and rifle are not used much and my idea was that TW25B grease (which stays put) is good for these, with maybe Gun Sheath to coat the outer metal. I have been using TW25B in my 9 mm SIG P226 as well. Is Militec-1 better? I have thought about using Militec-1.

I have been very disappointed with Breakfree, which is what the military is supposed to use. After carefully cleaning my gun and then using Breakfree my gun has rammed badly twice. Personally I will never again use Breakfree.

I have tried various lubricants (we are fanatics here, are we not?) and I have never found a gun oil I am really happy with. Good old Hoppes gun cleaner seems good enough for cleaning (unless there is a lot of copper buildup in the barrel). There are other cleaners that have worked good enough, such as MPro7. But I have never come across a gun oil that really pleased me. And for that matter, I have heard that SimpleGreen can be used to clean a gun. What are your thoughts about all of this?

 

[metroplex]

quote:

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I have been very disappointed with Breakfree, which is what the military is supposed to use. After carefully cleaning my gun and then using Breakfree my gun has rammed badly twice. Personally I will never again use Breakfree.

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How did it jam?

I use BreakFree CLP to clean my rifles and then wipe off the excess. I never had a problem. TW-25 offers less corrosion protection than BF CLP. Militec-1 has no corrosion protection.

 

[rgl]

quote:

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I have tried various lubricants (we are fanatics here, are we not?) and I have never found a gun oil I am really happy with

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I think that's because "gun oil" is trying to do too many things and ends up mediocre. I am now up to 4 lubes for rifles. I am using Mobil 1 for internals on centerfires, Mobil 1 grease on slides and op rods, Mobil 1 spray on .22 trigger housings and bolts and any small parts that don't need a lot of lube, and non-synthetic Dex/Mercon ATF (thanks to Metroplex) for exterior wipedown. I notice that the ATF looks wetter on parkerising and bluing than Mobil 1 oil.

 

[Mystic]

How did the Mobil 1 grease work? I have found a few gun lubricants that seem to work. For example, I am convinced that MPro7 cleans a gun well, and of all the gun oils I have ever tried I like MPro7 gun oil the best. I like TW25B grease. It stays put and seems to work.I like Blue Wonder gun cleaner, although it does have an ammonia smell. I am in the process of checking out Militec-1 products. I obtained some free samples of their oil and grease and will try them on my gun. But this may take a while until I go shooting again.

The products I have listed above (except for the Militec-1 which I have not checked out yet) are satisfactory to me. But there is one continuing problem with all gun cleaners and gun oils. This problem is that they all tend to be expensive. If I could find automotive products that would work as well and cost less then I would use the automotive products. I assume the Mobil 1 grease is expensive. But it probably come sin a larger tube and lasts much longer. This would make it cheaper then the special purpose gun grease.

 

[metroplex]

TW-25B offers no substantial corrosion protection.
The same applies to Militec-1 and FP-10. I have tested them all.

The only products that offer outstanding corrosion protection are: non-synthetic Dex-3/Mercon ATF, Break Free CLP, and Eezox.

I wouldn't use grease on a rifle or any firearm. It attracts dirt/sand/grit that can wear out the moving parts quicker.

Even on an AK, I only use Break Free CLP. I don't believe in all of the anecdotal evidence that their firearms "jam" because of Break Free CLP. As long as you know how to clean the firearm and do not leave a layer of the product on the moving surfaces, it should not jam or gum up. Any other product that says otherwise (all petroleum based to some extent) is shooting smoke up your way. One example of their careful marketing is how they advertise their product meets/exceeds MIL-L-63460D, the Military Spec for a Cleaner, Lubricant, and Preservative. The qualifying products list for 643460D (lists the products that have officially, under government approval, passed 63460D) only has Royal CLP, Break Free CLP, and some variants of the above 2 (for export) in the list. That means every manufacturer of some gun oil that touts it has exceeded "63460" has done "unofficial" tests attempting to cash in on this war.

I digress...

I would not use engine oil to lubricate/preserve/clean a firearm.

If you're not allergic to ATF, that's certainly a good option because of the disperant content (that acts like a detergent) and corrosion protection.

BreakFree CLP is less than $1 per oz and is one of the least expensive "gun" products on the OTC market and meets the military spec for real. I haven't heard of any complaints from soldiers about CLP when used in dusty/sandy environments properly.

 

[rgl]

quote:

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I wouldn't use grease on a rifle or any firearm. It attracts dirt/sand/grit that can wear out the moving parts quicker.

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Grease is specified by the US Military for the Garand and M14 on various high wear areas including op rod, bolt lugs and top of hammer. There are no problems using it but of course it should be wiped out and reapplied if dirty. Takes a minute tops. The Garand will operate with oil fine if you enjoy oil baths. I recently started using grease on auto pistol slides as the area lubed is completely enclosed and tight against dust except upon the fraction of a second it is fired.

I have had no problems using synth oil to lube firearms since about 1990 or so. I fire them sub-freezing here in WI. I have never heard or experienced any reason why it would be inadequate in any way. If it can withstand billions of repeated poundings at high speeds and temperatures in a gasoline engine and suspend/neutralize contaminants and acids at the same time it certainly is not harming a firearm that is undergoing similar stresses to a much lesser degree. It is certainly better than the junk 2 oz. bottles of mineral oil sold as "gun oil." And although it is not the best exterior protectant it does not harm parkerising or bluing.

I would bet that the jus the amount of R&D that has gone into Mobil 1 is several times more $ than the entire $ amount of all gun oil sales in the US.

quote:

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I assume the Mobil 1 grease is expensive. But it probably come sin a larger tube and lasts much longer. This would make it cheaper then the special purpose gun grease.

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The Mobil 1 grease comes in the huge grease gun cartridge as well as a large can. It is about $5 or $6. I just scoop up whatever is left in the cartridge after the grease gun won't work anymore and that fills up about a year's worth of small containers for gun use. The Mobil 1 spray general purpose oil (not auto related) is discontinued but available at Big Lots for about $1.30 (for now). I don't know why they discontinued it as everyone that has used it appears to love it (see related threads on this).

 

[Mystic]

I do own a video made by a noted handgun competitor and gunsmith and he recommends using grease to lubricate handguns (or at least the SIG P226). In the video he uses grease to lubricate the weapon. He says that grease can be used except in very cold weather. He of course sells his own brand of gun oil and gun grease but there are other gun greases such as TW25B. It would be my guess that there are some parts of a gun that would benefit better from oil, such as the trigger mechanism.

Not too long ago I heard that the military at some time in the past used what they called 'Red Oil' to lubricate rifles. It consisted of 10W engine oil and ATF mixed together in equal amounts (1+1 quarts) and a bottle of STP Engine Treatment. I have never tried this.

 

[metroplex]

TW-25B also offers no substantial benefits in corrosion protection.

The M16/M4s do not require grease for lubrication on any part of the rifle. If you use grease, it will quickly become a sandball in the desert environment, which is the dominant environment where we are fighting a war.

The AKs can use grease on some of the moving parts, but I see no real purpose in doing so because the steel is surface hardened in those areas.

I can't say for sure about the P226, M14, or M1 garand but the 2 latter rifles were tough coookies and you could **** on them to unfreeze them in the winter.

 

[rgl]

quote:

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The AKs can use grease on some of the moving parts, but I see no real purpose in doing so because the steel is surface hardened in those areas.

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Yes, I don't worry about the AKs too much. The best description I have seen regarding them is that they were designed for "ham handed peasants." I would guess everything in the world from boot polish to olive oil has been used to lube an AK.

 

[Mystic]

I think it is simply the nature of the beast that AK-47s are easy to maintain and M-16s are prone to jam. The AK-47 from the start was apparently designed to be easy to maintain and 'idiot proof.' I have heard of problems with jams involving the M-16 since the Vietnam War. You would think they would have solved the problem by now.

No matter what anybody says I have no confidence in the military Breakfree. Twice I had jamming problems after using (and following directions) Breakfree to lubricate my SIG P226. I will never use the stuff again. A lot of American soldiers complain about military CLP. There probably needs to be an investigation.

If I went with just oil to lubricate my guns I would use MPro7 gun oil. It is synthetic and is supposed to be usable in all weather conditions. According to what I have been able to find out the new Hoppes Elite line of products is the same as
MPro7 cleaner and MPro7 oil. I don't know this for a fact but that is what I have heard. But I have never been able to find the Hoppes Elite products in any store around where I live.

I don't necessarily agree that grease is just a dirt and sand attractor. I realize that dust in the Middle East is very fine but dust probably would not get into the slides of a handgun too easily. Maybe in the Middle East you just need to clean and lubricate your weapon very, very often, and certainly before any major action. If necessary you could clean the weapon very carefully and put a very small amount of gun oil on the weapon. But we are not in the Middle East and in this country people mainly only have to worry about temperature extremes. My big problem with oil is that it does not stay put-you probably should lube the gun somewhat every time before you shoot.

 

[Chris B.]

quote:

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Originally posted by WDP:
The military is dumping Breakfree because of the mass failures of the M16 in the desert. They along with many government agencies are going with the Militec because it works. True it isn't much of a rust deterent but that is what I use the Breakfree for.

WDP

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That is 100% FALSE! Breakfree is still the standered issiue lube for all branches of Military and is a solid performer. Militec was tested and failed in many parts of the mil-63460D testing. It has never been issued by any military unit offically.