Amazing Elf 506.01 UOA - 04 VW PD-TDI

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MolaKule

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This a low wear engine for sure. Not sure the oil is helping that much.

Need to try other oils before the Elf is considered majic.
 
Engines running pure biodiesel, ie "B-100" always show very low Fe and Cr levels. It's mainly due to the almost complete absence of soot as a byproduct of combustion, along with reduced levels of sulphuric acid....

Run some 500 ppm sulphur, fuel with this formulation and you'll see a dramatic increase in iron levels.
 
SUNRG,
These are good numbers without a doubt, but let's not get too excited yet. After all, I thought the 505.01 oils were the cat's meow regarding the PD engine. You'd certainly think so after reading the 505.01 lovefests over at tdiclub.com. And one other thing, why such a short OCI? Isn't the 506.01 specifically designed for extended change intervals? Oh yeah, we also shouldn't read too much into VOAs either since they don't tell the whole story.
a4tdi
 
TooSlick - this vehicle was fueled on B60 and B66 for the entire OCI. i have the ASTM results on the BioD and it is nearly sulfur free, but i don't know about the petroD i blended it with - your probably right in that it'd be around 500ppm. i'm guessing the B60 and B66 blends were in the 100-200ppm range for sulfur content. thankfully, ULSD is already beginning to be phased in and before long we'll all be running diesel limited to 15ppm sulfur. our Jetta TDI with the same PD-TDI engine and same fuel but twice the miles (currently has a 45500 mile oil sample at the lab) has returned good UOA results with low wear levels using 505.01 oils (click here to view), but none as low as this. i agree the fuel helps, but the Elf 506.01 oil definitely deserves some credit for this excellent UOA.

a4tdi - i didn't change the oil, i just extracted a sample (using an Amsoil oil sampling vaccuum pump) and sent it to the lab:
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i'll at least keep the oil in for 10k, and if that analysis looks great i'll go for 15. i agree that VOAs (virgin oil analyses) don't tell you much. this thread is discussing a UOA (used oil analysis) result - which IMO is a pretty good indication of an oil's application specific performance.

MolaKule - this is the third UOA from this vehicle. below is an image of the others. an Elf 506.01 sample was also sent to the OAI/CTC lab to compare results from two different labs. we've got a spreadsheet of around 30 UOAs from PD-TDI engines in the PD Oil Information & Analyses thread over at TDIclub that this can be compared to as well.

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cheers
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[ August 09, 2005, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: SUNRG ]
 
i was fully prepared for this UOA to show a higher wear rate than the previous two UOAs from this vehicle, because nearly all miles were my local mountain backroad commute (no highway road trips) and i've been firmly accelorating during a number of shifts during every trip i take in the car. previously i've driven more gently to optimize fuel economy, but IMO the engine runs and performs better when you accelorate firmly to ~4k RPMs for a few shifts during each trip.

however, over 5003 miles on a PD-TDI with only 21181 on the ODO (not broken in yet) the Fe is only 12 - for an insanely low Fe wear rate of a 2.4ppm / 1000miles. Cr, Al, Cu and Pb wear was super low too!

i have never seen a wear rate this low in any TDI (pre-PD included) with only 21k on the ODO.

Elf Evolution CRV 506.01 is the real deal.

the only source i know of is TDI club member Danix / www.TDIparts.com - and he is awesome to do business with.

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thanks to VWAG for pushing the oil performace envelope and creating the 506.01 performance specification!

cheers
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the CAT lab also performed a VOA on this oil:

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since the VOA indicated 2ppm Fe with new oil that means that the engine only produced 10ppm over the above 5k OCI, for a Fe wear rate of an even 2 ppm / 1000 miles.

the lab manager said the large particle count flag in the VOA was just the additive package showing up in the particle count.
 
A couple of observations:

1) The 506.01 formulations are more shear stable than the 505.01 formulations, which often drop to a 30wt after 5k miles. So there probably isn't much difference in oil film thickness between these two formulations after the first 3k miles.

2) At first glance, TBN retention does not appear to be any better with the 506.01 formulation. So I'm not sure the promise of longer service intervals would be realized?

3) The previous test you did back on 6 Jan is argueably more impressive, since the engine was still wearing in at that point. That test showed less valve train wear and less piston scuffing wear, ie the comparative Iron & Aluminum levels....

4) Fuel dilution was higher this time around,even with the warmer weather. This is due to the much higher flashpoint of biodiesel - the stuff does not evaporate out of the crankcase unless you're running very high, sustained lube temps.
 
TooSlick - Sorry, I think I confused things a bit. The two UOAs depicted above are from this vehicle's first and second UOAs; Castrol 505.01 (using mostly B100 fuel) and Motul 506.01 (~2200 miles on D2, ~2300 on B60). Below is the third UOA from this vehicle - Elf 506.01 (B60 &B66 fuel):
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Significantly lower wear than either of the previous UOAs and no fuel dilution.

i am keeping the Elf 506.01 in for 10k and will have a sample sent to the OAI/CTC lab, so we'll have a chance to see how the TBN holds up during a 10k OCI. until i'm out of the warranty period (50k) i'm limiting OCIs to 10k even if UOA results indicate that i could safely go further - but after 50k i hope to go with annual OCIs (~18-22k).
 
Is risking your warranty really worth using a non-approved oil?
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If I spent $20k+ dollars on a new car, I'd use whatever oil I was told to use. Even if I didn't agree with the oil choice.

Same with fuel. I'm all for using BD. But anything above B5 voids the warranty as well. So I wouldn't dare using anything above B5 until the warranty was up.

Nothing like buy a new car with strings attatched. Guess that's why I always buy used cars.
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quote:

Originally posted by TexasTDI:
Is risking your warranty really worth using a non-approved oil?
confused.gif


If I spent $20k+ dollars on a new car, I'd use whatever oil I was told to use. Even if I didn't agree with the oil choice.


that's some pretty heavy sarcasm
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, but for the benefit of those not familiar with VW oil specifications - 506.01 is a full synthetic, extended drain, fuel economy VWAG oil specification that is expressly designed for VW PD-TDI engines.

quote:

Same with fuel. I'm all for using BD. But anything above B5 voids the warranty as well. So I wouldn't dare using anything above B5 until the warranty was up.

Nothing like buy a new car with strings attatched. Guess that's why I always buy used cars.
cool.gif


it is possible that VW could void my warranty for >B5 use. but, first i'd have to have a fuel related problem ...

my fuel is of exceedingly high quality, and it meets all ASTM D975 diesel #2 fuel specifications, so odds are against a fuel related problem developing.

have a great weekend!
cheers.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by SUNRG:
for the benefit of those not familiar with VW oil specifications - 506.01 is a full synthetic, extended drain, fuel economy VWAG oil specification that is expressly designed for VW PD-TDI engines.

This may be true. But your car isn't warrantied through VAG. It's warrantied through VWoA. And VWoA says only use a 505.01 oil. So don't expect VWoA to honor your warranty if you have problems and you tell them you haven't been using a 505.01 oil.
 
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