Detroit Diesel high silicon?

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Feb 6, 2004
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I'm trying to help my brother out with his truck. He get a UOL with every OCI. They keep telling him that his silicon is high. We both live in Florida. I told him to check his air filter(Donaldson). He said it looked like it was sealing ok. He had an in-frame o-haul about 80,000 miles ago. Could gasket material still be leaching into the oil? I thought I would post his last UOA numbers to get some feedback.

TRUCK-99 International (pulls a flatbed trailer)
ENG.-12.7 Detroit
0DO.-541,748
OCI- 10,000 miles
OIL- Delvac Dino plus 1 gallon Lucas
MILES PER WEEK- about 2500

UOA NUMBERS:
Alum < 2
Chromium 8
Copper < 2
Iron 14
Lead < 2
Tin < 2
Silicon 29
Potassium < 2
Sodium 9
Water < 0.1
Oxydation 8.4
Vis @ 100 13.8
Glycol - none detected
Fuel < 2.0
TBN 6.9
SAE 43
Soot 0.7
This motor has 2 spin-on oil filters, it looks like it was made that way.Is one a bypass or are they both full-flow oil filters. Baldwin oil filters.
Thank you
Mike.D
 
Hi,
sorry to repost but I forgot to comment on the use of Lucas additive

It is expressly advised NOT to use any additives in these engines. I would never use any

This board has a report by BOB on the Lucas additive in engine oil you should urgently consult it

Regards
 
Hi,
I operate a number of these engines - 12.7ltr DD Series 60 @ 500hp
My Company runs reefers on linehaul at about 130k average per vehicle per annum
I have a 98 International S3600 6X4 prime mover and it has covered 720k - it is our sentimental favourite but is about to be sold. Its final UOA will be posted here soon
I have a number of newer IVECO vehicles which are a "hybrid" using the IH chassis etc. and a IVECO cabin - 2 UOAs will be posted here soon

IVECO purchased International Harvester ( IH ) here in Australia about 10 years ago

The UOA report looks good to me

For your interest;
- my average Silicate @ UOA point reading is 29
- my average Silicate @ OC point ( 62k )is 33
- highest is 44
- lowest is 23

I use Delvac 1 5w-40 synthetic oil
I use OCIs of 100000kms ( 62k miles )
( have done so for millions of kilometers )
I use Donaldson ELF3998 long life oil filters
I use a MANN-HUMMEL "Spinner 2" centrifuge on all of my 500hp engines
I use Donaldson LongLife air filter elements

Both the oil filters are full flow on this engine
The Donaldson ELF3998 filters are an excellent product and do NOT need changed out before 62k

Detroit's published engine operating limits using a CH-4> oil are;
Soot 3%
Iron 150ppm
Copper 30ppm
TBN(D4739) minimum 1

Suggestions;
1 - Change to Delvac 1 5w-40 synthetic
2 - Use Donaldson ELF3998 filters
3 - Sample oil at 10k intervals
4 - Determin OCI from the samples

In my opinion these engines take well to synthetic oil and without a by-pass filter fitted will go to about 3 times the 10k OCI you use at present. It is cost effective

Ensure that you take monthly coolant tests to ensure the coolant remains within Detroit's limits

I use Mobil SHC 75w-90 diff oil ( Eaton-Rockwell-Meritor lifetime fill )
I use Mobil SHC 50 gearbox oil ( RRanger )

Regards

[ February 08, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]
 
Chris142 and Doug Hillary.
Thanks for the input, I'll pass it on to my brother.

Mike.D
 
Although the breather could be an issue, and certainly worth looking at, the wear and aluminum numbers are so low as to imply that maybe the lucas additive or something uses silicon as an antifoam. (normally for every 3 or so parts of silicon reported you subtract 1 from your aluminum number to get the true aluminum wear particles).
 
Hi,
yes the Series 60 engines do seem to the unpracticed to have excessive silicates in their UOAs

The reason is;
a) the seals and sealers used and,
b) the injector rocker arm's cam follower uses a roller made of silicon nitride

( Of course not discounting intake tract leaks )

Regards
 
you may want to check the after cooler to rule out all intake leaks. I had a sample come back high in silicon on my 60series too. you can inspect it visually or rig up plugs to install on each end and run 30psi air in and check for leaks. If he has a boost guage is it reading normal
 
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