The cost of free oil

widman · Dec 9, 2003

This sample is from a friend who was being nagged by a new distributor to try a new oil called Tutela Urania Turbo (supposedly CI-4)- made by FL (formerly Fiat Lubricants) in Brazil. Finally the guy left him a drum to try FREE. Of course he couldn't resist trying it, so he put it in one of his smaller New Holland tractors. Hours on oil - 250, hours on tractor - 532. Here are the results:
Iron 156
chrom 22
lead 105
copper 78
tin 13
aluminum 29
nickel 0
silver 0
silicon 49
boron 53
sodium 1
mag 270
calcium 2362
barium 0
phos 865
zinc 973
moly 0
fuel water 0
visc 14.65
soot 0.2
tbn 8.1

FowVay · Dec 9, 2003

Wow, that free oil must really be a great product. Look at all of the cleaning it is doing and at how filthy that engine was with such low hours.

Well,, I'm just trying to make light of a sad situation.

oilyriser · Dec 11, 2003

silicon 49

How's the air filter?

widman · Dec 13, 2003

Like a lot of people here, they were using compressed air to clean the air filter.....

Neil Womack · Dec 16, 2003

Its interesting seeing what substandard oil and maintenance will do to an engine.

GregH · Dec 16, 2003

Allow me to throw in a little observation.
1. The oil was used probably 2.5 times longer than it should have been.
2. We do not know the condition of the air filter.
3. We do not know previous OCI's. There could have beena lot of junk floating around from the previous abusive practices. Which if I had to guess, previous oil changes were at least as poor timewise as this one was.
In most cases extended oil change intervals under farm conditions are a chancy thing. The high dust conditons are conducive to high wear.
I would not use a no name oil under any conditions in my Kubota.
Let us not forget that poor maintainence pracitces can mask what otherwise might be a good oil, not to say that this one is or not.
Food for thought?????/
GregH

widman · Jan 3, 2004

Note that this is an almost new tractor. First change from factory fill at 50 hours, per manual. Second after 232 more hours (Manual calls for 250) and then this one. Yes, some of this damage is due to the air filter that they were cleaning too hard and too often, but compare it to the rest on my web site and 49 ppm of dirt can't account for all of this damage.
His other tractors are running 400 hours between changes on another oil. In general, where the rest of the maintenance is correct, I have customers using a CI-4 Group I product 400 hrs between changes and Delo 500 hours. Conditions are severe dust.

GregH · Jan 13, 2004

widman,
THis brings up a question. My Kubota has a 2 stage air filter and regular spin on oil filter. Manufacturer says 100 hours changes. What do other makers do to suggest 250 hours changes?
Just curious
GregH

widman · Jan 15, 2004

I don't know why they would only recommend 100 hrs if it is water cooled, as the Kubotas here are. You generally have to reduce the time for air cooled engines in hot climates or mining where they breath their exhaust.
Most of my customers use bigger tractors so I haven't done any analisis on oil in Kubota tractors. Lot os them on John Deere, Ford, New Holland, Valtra, Massey. They have all been able to get easily to 400 hours with Group I CI-4 oil and 500 hrs with Delo.
First thing is to make sure you don't ever try to clean out the interior filter (usually wool with oil). Oil analisis is then the key to extending. I don't extend anyone without analisis. I would watch the analisis for fuel and dirt contamination, and not leave it in more than 6 months. Also not leave oil over 50 hours in an engine between seasons or more than 6 weeks without use.
Interesting, the Deutz manual (air cooled engine on a lot of busses and farm equipment) indicates 250 hours in CF-4 oils and 500 in CH-4 or better.

Steve S · Jan 19, 2004

I have been thinking about this post . what else could be expected from Fiat? If it is the same as the car Fiat .

Ray H · Feb 1, 2004

Heaven only knows what kind and amount of contaminants are in Bolivian fuel and how often the fuel filter(s) have been tended to.... There's more we don't know about maintenance on that engine than what we do know about the oil being "dis"-cussed. Fiat is heavily into medium and large diesel engine production in Europe for farm implements and over-the-road tractors. Seems odd that the company would produce as grossly an inferior diesel engine oil as is being implied by an armchair "expert" on this site. Isn't the company tied in with Ferrari, too? Yeah, another loser...

widman · Feb 14, 2004

I noted "formerly Fiat Lubricants" I don't know if it was better when they owned it. All I can tell you is that this is an almost new engine (532 hours), and although my desk chair does have arms on it, I've had more than 1000 engine oils analized and used them to improve maintenance procedures in many different companies. The results speak for themselves.

widman · Feb 27, 2004

Here is an update. Owner continues to use his free oil, but changed the air filter. Tractor now has 802 hours on it and 269 on this oil. I'll put the old and new numbers side by side.
Total hours 532--802
hrs on oil 250--269
Iron 156--67
chrom 22--10
lead 105--37
copper 78--22
Tin 13--2
Aluminum 29--12
nickel 0--0
Silicon 49--18
boron 53--50
sodium 1--1
Mag 270--270
Calcium 2362--2438
barium 0--0
Phos 865--890
zinc 973--983
moly 0--0
fuel visc 14.65--14.70
water 0--0
soot/solids 0.2--0.2
tbn 8.1--5.4
Definitely better with less tirt, but a lot of wear metals and still few additives.

Neil Womack · Feb 28, 2004

This is another example of why the air filter (and a tight intake system) is the most important filter on our vehicles.

Chris · Jun 19, 2004

Absolutely unreal what an affect an air filter change had on wear!!

The cost of free oil

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