Running Gear Oil in the Crankcase

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I just talked with a friend who owns and maintains a couple of tractor diesel engines, and he says he stopped a rattle in one by first adding 90 weight gear oil, then replacing it with 100% gear oil on the next change.
What do you think of that?
 
Motor oil , Gear lube & Auto. Trans. Fluid

What’s the Difference?

What are the differences between motor oil, gear lube and automatic transmission fluid? Why do those differences matter?
Lubricants, such as motor oil, automatic transmission fluid and gear lube, contain lubricating basestocks and additives that provide performance benefits the basestocks cannot provide.

Motor Oil - Motor oil additives include dispersants and detergent/alkalinity additives to keep contaminants in suspension until they are carried to the engine filter where they are removed and to neutralize the acids created by combustion. Motor oils also contain emulsifiers to suspend water, a combustion byproduct, in the motor oil. Suspended water evaporates in high temperature areas of the engine.

Automatic Transmission Fluid
Of the three lubricants considered here, automatic transmission fluid(ATF) has the highest viscosity index.
While all three automotive lubes may be called upon to function in temperatures ranging from extremely low to extremely high, ATF alone functions as a hydraulic fluid. To ensure consistent shifting, the automatic transmission’s hydraulic cylinder must move at roughly the same rate whenever it is engaged. The high viscosity index of ATF ensures that fluid viscosity remains relatively constant despite temperature fluctuations.

Gear Lube- Gear lubes contain extreme pressure additives to protect gear surfaces. Gears often operate without a full lubricating film separating them and some gears contact their mating gear surface along a line or single point of contact Extreme pressure additives chemically interact with gear surfaces and form a “shield” that protects the gear surfaces from contacting and damaging one another. Gear motion continually shears the shield from the gear surfaces and it is continually replaced by the chemical interaction of the lubricant and gear surface.

Gear lubes also contain tackifiers, which help the lubricant cling to gear surfaces and transfer from one gear to the next.

ATF and gear lube contain demulsifiers, which helps water separate from the lubricant. The applications in which these lubes are used are not exposed to combustion, so water build up is uncommon.


Cross-applications
Engine- Because automatic transmissions, manual transmissions and differentials are not exposed to combustion processes, ATF and gear lube contain no dispersants or detergent/alkalinity additives. These lubes would give an engine no protection from the corrosive effects of combustion acids, nor would they suspend contaminants for delivery to the filter, where they are removed.

The lack of emulsifiers would allow a buildup of water in the lubrication system.

The chemistry that allows gear lube extreme pressure additives to form a protective shield on gear surfaces may corrode some engine bearings.


Automatic transmission- Motor oil dispersants and detergents would promote wear in an automatic transmission by keeping contaminants suspended and circulating. The automatic transmission filter is small and oriented in a way that allows contaminants to drop off when the vehicle is shut down. With contaminants suspended by the dispersants and detergents, the filter would plug quickly and inhibit fluid flow, potentially leading to transmission failure.

As they may in the engine, gear lube extreme pressure additives may damage sensitive metals in the automatic transmission.

Finally the lower viscosity indices of motor oils and gear lubes would impair shift consistency.

Gears- With no extreme pressure additives, motor oil and ATF would allow excessive wear in the gears, such as differentials and some manual transmissions, that require gear lube.

With no tackifiers, motor oil and ATF would not cling sufficiently to protect gear surfaces.

Finally, motor oil emulsifiers may encourage foaming and rust.
 
Don't do it! Had a company truck (Dodge 318) destroyed because someone accidentally? added gear oil to the crankcase. It hardened up to a big gummy mess and the engine spun a main bearing.
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in case you (or your friend) doesn't know, gear oil and motor sae viscosities are on a different scale. so 90wt gear oil is about the same viscosity as 40wt motor oil. 90 gear oil is not 3 times thicker than 30 motor oil. there is no benefit to running gear oil, in fact it would damage it.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Lubricious:
I just talked with a friend who owns and maintains a couple of tractor diesel engines, and he says he stopped a rattle in one by first adding 90 weight gear oil, then replacing it with 100% gear oil on the next change.
What do you think of that?


Heheheheee
I guess if the
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is on the way out and you just want to have some fun... hummm, I'd like to be there.
If he does do it, Get a sample for the group, please!
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Regarding lube oil added to engine oil. Absolutely, positively, NO!! The EP additives in gear oil can chemically attack yellow metal; like main bearings, connecting rod bearings, etc.. Plus the whole host of other negative aspects mentioned above..
These 'wives tales' that older, low pressure diesel systems were able to live with without too much damage (ATF, gear oil, etc.) are positively death knoll for the new higher pressure, high performance diesel engine..
George Morrison
 
I can see using gear oil with its far higher level of antiwear agents quieting an engine noise...then it'll ruin the engine.


Ken
 
quote:

I just talked with a friend who owns and maintains a couple of tractor diesel engines, and he says he stopped a rattle in one by first adding 90 weight gear oil, then replacing it with 100% gear oil on the next change. What do you think of that?

The answer is, he's sorely misinformed and will damage his engines.

Have him add some Schaeffer's #132 with his 15W40 HD oil instead.
 
I did that one time quite a few years ago. I was young and dumb at the time (maybe 19) and the company I worked for had a stationary 1050 cubic inch cummins engine (450 horse) that they used to run a pump, and they were batch testing some parts. This required that the engine be run all day long for both shifts for a total of 16 hours per day... at full power for about a week. The engine was pretty worn out (had scored liners) and used a fair amount of oil- it was my job during my shift to shut it down every hour or so, check and top off the oil, and restart it. Well, I got busy doing something else and forgot about it for a few hours. I remembered this, went out there and shut it down and checked the oil. There was no oil showing on the dipstick, so I went to get the barrel of oil to top it off... and the barrel was emtpy. Now wanting to get caught with no oil in the engine after neglecting the engine for a few hours, I brought out the barrel of 90wt gear oil and pumped it full. That engine held about twelve gallons of oil total, and it took five gallons to top it off. Obviously I didn't say anything about it the next day other than to mention that we were out of motor oil. The only thing I ever heard out of this fiasco was that the day shift guy commented that the engine had hardly used any oil that next day and he thought that was kinda odd. I guess 90wt will improve oil consumption.
 
Wow Don. Excellent discussion of the dangers of using the wrong fluids. I'll be sure to keep the fluids in the correct places.

Once I put 10w40 motor oil in the manual tranny on my '84 F150 (at the advice of an old timer at a reputable tranny shop) when it had about 95,000 miles on it. Now it has 200,000 miles on it and is still shifting fine.

I didn't know ATF had such a high VI. Does it have a lot of VIIs? My '95 F150 manual tranny actually runs ATF.

Also, back in the 1970s guys would run a quart of ATF in their crankcase claiming it was extra high detergent to clean up the engine. Little did they know ...
grin.gif
 
The synthetic ATF's don't have much at all, while the dinos and blends have about 7%.

If I were required to run ATF in a manual tranny, I would run either Redline High Temperature Dexron III ATF (10 cSt) or Redline MTL, and preferably the Redline MTL.
 
Hi,
ATF's have been a requirement in manual Euro cars ( MB is an example ) for over 40 years. They still are - many are filled for life

I use Castrol's synthetic ATF Transmax Z in my BMW Z3 2.8 manual. This fluid is used in Drag Racing vehicles and has a formidable reputation in heavy vehicle retarders and transmissions

All ATF's perform a "multi-element" task - one of which is lubricating a very complex set of gears. This is sometimes forgotten as many people think an Auto is an hydraulic box. It is not!

If a ATF is a manufacturer's recommendation in a manual gearbox use only that. Upgrade to a fully synthetic ATF if you wish - the results are well worth it and the cost

Regards
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
The synthetic ATF's don't have much at all, while the dinos and blends have about 7%.

If I were required to run ATF in a manual tranny, I would run either Redline High Temperature Dexron III ATF (10 cSt) or Redline MTL, and preferably the Redline MTL.


Thanks for the advice. I'll check it out. I have been running Mobil 1 ATF in this manual tranny from the day I got it (58,000 miles), but for the next go around, maybe one of these others will work (have to check the spec).
 
One thing with mistaking oils.

An engine will likely survive a short period of oepration on gear oils with very little, or no harm.

A gear set (particularly diff) is unlikely to survive very long with engine oil in it.
 
Gear oils will damage engines, but many manual transmissions are designed for motor oils. Many of the motor oils will give you 11 or so on the FZG test, verses 12 for gear oils.
CAT trucks and equipment usan motor oils (or now TO-4 which has more friction modifiers) in diferentials.
 
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