MolaKule
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A virgin oil analysis using an advanced Spectroscopy machine can tell you exactly what's in the oil, even the level of synthetics. You match the spectrum from the analysis with the published spectrum of that base or additive.
Newbie - Mobil Delvac 1 and Delvac 1300
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Uh-huh. And how many of the mail order oil analysis companies provide "advanced spectroscopy" analysis as part of their service? And how many oil companies actually publish the exact additive components and percentages of their oils? (None, that I know of. The MSDS is a rough guide at best.)
MolaKule
Staff member
This has been discussed before, but many shops or firms will if you know what you're asking for, especially Dyson Analysis. They usually charge upwards of $200 USD. And universities that have good organic chemistry departments will do this as well.
I am not referring to MSDS as per spectrum analysis, for they tell you nothing about the other addtives that don't have to be listed; I am referring to published spectrums found on various Chemical Sites.
I am not referring to MSDS as per spectrum analysis, for they tell you nothing about the other addtives that don't have to be listed; I am referring to published spectrums found on various Chemical Sites.
I've alway had Cummins and alway run Rotella T 15W40. Change it every 4-5K miles with a fleetguard filter. If you do this your Cummins engine should be good for 1,000,000 miles before a overhaul is needed. Now thats bang for the buck. Plus I love the smell of Rotella T for the first 500 miles after an oil change. Plus I would never put a synthetic in any diesel until you have at least 10K miles of towing or 20K miles of unloaded driving. JMHO
Regarding: Shell's Rotella T is a CI-4 rated oil and it didn't get to be the Number One HD diesel oil in North America* by not performing to fleet owners' expectations. (CI-4 for Rotella T Synthetic is right around the corner.)
Some "fleet owners' expectations" are pretty low. Many fleets are leasing equipment and could care less about engine and component longevity. And as being the number one HD diesel in sales does not necessarily mean it to be the "best" HD motor oil by any stretech of the imagination. Just as a Chevrolet being the #1 sales leader means it is the "best" vehicle! The logic is a bit tough to follow.... Biggest seller vs. best., hmmm...
And spectrographic analysis is indeed used by formulators to determine addtive levels! Just ask Bob! One of the aspects of Schaeffer's oils are definately reflected in addditive levels via spectro!
Moreover, Shell did a great job many years ago in its initial multi vis oils but has been resting on its laurels since then. There are *many* vastly superior oils to the Shell Rotella series oils. And, they are American companies........
George
[ December 19, 2002, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: GeorgeCLS ]
Some "fleet owners' expectations" are pretty low. Many fleets are leasing equipment and could care less about engine and component longevity. And as being the number one HD diesel in sales does not necessarily mean it to be the "best" HD motor oil by any stretech of the imagination. Just as a Chevrolet being the #1 sales leader means it is the "best" vehicle! The logic is a bit tough to follow.... Biggest seller vs. best., hmmm...
And spectrographic analysis is indeed used by formulators to determine addtive levels! Just ask Bob! One of the aspects of Schaeffer's oils are definately reflected in addditive levels via spectro!
Moreover, Shell did a great job many years ago in its initial multi vis oils but has been resting on its laurels since then. There are *many* vastly superior oils to the Shell Rotella series oils. And, they are American companies........
George
[ December 19, 2002, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: GeorgeCLS ]
When Ford introduced the Power Stroke diesel in 1994 with the Cat HEUI injectors alot of owners had problems with the oil foaming and causing the engine to run very rough. I ran Shell Rotella T in my 95 PSD and I knew when it was time for an oil change as it would start to lope and run rough at idle. This usually happened no later than the 3K mark. I finally changed to another brand and it has never happened again.
Shell finally addressed this problem because of the complaints and added more anti-foam agents. But they were extremely slow to react.
Shell finally addressed this problem because of the complaints and added more anti-foam agents. But they were extremely slow to react.
Chevron delo 400 and mobil 1300 are both better IMO than rotella.
I agree with George, if you go past a normal interval it really shows in analysis results.
I don't give away that kind of data. If you would like to pay for a field trial then we could post some data to back it up.
Most fleets use the cheapest/minimum quality HDD based on initial cost not quality, Rotella fits that profile. Now if you want to "brew" one using Rotella as a base...... oh forget that idea.
Just kidding Bob.
XHVI how long have you worked for RDS ?
I don't give away that kind of data. If you would like to pay for a field trial then we could post some data to back it up.
Most fleets use the cheapest/minimum quality HDD based on initial cost not quality, Rotella fits that profile. Now if you want to "brew" one using Rotella as a base...... oh forget that idea.
Just kidding Bob.
XHVI how long have you worked for RDS ?
RDS = Royal Dutch Shell
Not convenient but true.
Do you honestly think that independent ASTM/SAE comparative wear analysis testing is free ?
You may get theoretical bench tests(screens) done without disclosing brand, published in tribilogical/engineering mags but few free head to head tests shared publicly. If it is bankrolled by one of the brands you can rest assured they will not publish all the results for you to peruse for free.
Not convenient but true.
Do you honestly think that independent ASTM/SAE comparative wear analysis testing is free ?
You may get theoretical bench tests(screens) done without disclosing brand, published in tribilogical/engineering mags but few free head to head tests shared publicly. If it is bankrolled by one of the brands you can rest assured they will not publish all the results for you to peruse for free.
Of course not. But if you're claiming there are "vastly superior" oils to Rotella on the market, you must have seen such test results that prove this, so what's stopping you form posting the data here? The tests have already been done, so what's it going to cost you?
XHVI, The realities of the marketplace tend to discount your statement since a head to head test of two competing HDD's may end up costing thousands of $$.
Add the fact that I could care less about "brand" and you end up reading boards like this to attempt to glean as much free data as possible.
The oil analysis reports so generously shared here are the next best thing. And affordable too !
Add the fact that I could care less about "brand" and you end up reading boards like this to attempt to glean as much free data as possible.
The oil analysis reports so generously shared here are the next best thing. And affordable too !
But you said there are vastly superior oils to Rotella. Is this your opinion or fact, or some mixture of both? If it's fact, share the data that proves it. If it's opinion, just join the rest of us who have opinions about which oils are better than others. If it's a mixture of both, share the anecdotal evidence that backs up your opinion.
XHVI, Over the years I have shared quite a bit of Dyson Analysis testing here and on Noria. I sometimes have to do it in a low key fashion for proprietary reasons. I understand your skepticism.
Good try though on the HDD's.
[ December 19, 2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
Good try though on the HDD's.
[ December 19, 2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
I'm skeptical of any claim that a product is "superior" in the absence of evidence to support such a claim.
Edit: Actually I could add that I'm skeptical of any claim that a product is "inferior" in the absence of evidence to support such a claim.
[ December 20, 2002, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: XHVI ]
Any performance claims I've ever made on this forum about Rotella were clearly stated as my opinion and were based on my own experience with Rotella T Synthetic as well as the easily researched history of Shell's XHVI base oil and ShellVis VI improver. And there has been a recent post on the used oil analysis forum where Rotella T Syn showed some good long drain numbers in a VW TDI. And Rotella T conventional seemed to do quite well in Bob's Timken test, for what it's worth.
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