5w30 in Genset?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
18
Location
Eastern Iowa
I've got a Cat 3406 Genset. Is AMSOil 5w30 Series 3000 really tough enough to pour in to a 14 liter, 24 valve, 479HP monster? It's got a 6KW block heater, but the oil pan lives under the block, and is unheated. Trapped moisture moves from hot to cold, I assume not heating the oil pan allows any moisture in the engine to migrate to the 10 gallons of cold oil in the pan, rather than finding some machined part to condense on to. Upon startup, this genset holds at 1200 RPM until there is oil pressure before the governor jumps it to 1800 RPM. On the factory fill oil, the engine would linger at 1200 RPM for 3-4 sec, and up to 8-9 sec when the ambient temps were really low. That's 8-9 sec at 1200 RPM, no oil pressure. This bothered me enough to seek a synthetic. After dumping in 5w30, it usually doesn't have time to level off at 1200 RPM, it just goes right to 1800. I did a cold start-load test when the air temp was around -5 F, and it just barely had time to level off at 1200 RPM before the governor sent it to 1800. (My brother said "You tested it at -5F?! Wow, you must really hate that engine!)

So, in that regard, the synthetic is worth it in my book, but I have no idea how well it protects the engine when it's up to temp, burning copious amounts of diesel, and working hard enough to be able to feel the thumping from every power stroke in the soil 3 feet away from the cement pad it sits on. (Varies depending upon load.... very apparent when a couple of 30HP motors are trying to start at the same time!)

The same holds true for my Duramax daily driver. I would really like to settle on a single oil for all my engines, (and the gas engines, too) but 5W30 just "sounds thin." When I told my friend, and mechanic that I was going to put a bypass filter on, and pour Synthetic 5W30 in to my Duramax, he laughed at me and said "You need a high quality oil like Shell Rotella!" (Shell marketing at work?) Even though he does dozens of oil changes a week, he doesn’t seem to have a strong lubrication-oil-science background, so I don’t give his comments much merit.

I'm wondering if a 15W40 (AMS heavy duty Diesel and Marine would be the oil I would chose) might be a better choice in these engines. The Cat only has about 10 hours on the 5W30, (65 hours total) and no UOA has been done yet on the current oil. I have not yet drained the dino oil out of my just purchased Duramax yet, either. Comments?
 
welcome.gif
Read around and you will find out mechanics usually know little about oil.
 
I personally think you will find that the 5w30 will protect better than any dino based oil.

You have to remember it's not always the thickness of the oil, but also the HT/HS Vis, the Viscosity Index, the additive package, and the base oil itself.

Most of the time a synthetic basestock will handle higher pressures. This helps in regards to shearing and the "pound" pressure of those big pistons.

If your oil system is working correctly, I would venture to say that you will have less wear with the Amsoil in any temperature than with some other "high quality" Name branded oil.

As far as your Duramax and other vehicles. I don't see why you can't runn the 5w30 HDD in everything you own. With extended drain with and without a by-pass filter you should be able to break even to say the least. If you run it to the limit, you will save a bunch of money in the long run.

Hope this helps.
 
I would go by the factory recommedations for oil viscosities and operating temps as that is a very expensive engine. The Amsoil HDD seems to be one of the better oils on the market though. Iowa gets a bit brisk in the winter a syn would be a good choice. Lots of commercial trucks use rotella and get lots of miles on them. I would use the recommended factory oil and filters on your duramax, at the shorter intervals on your manual. Then as time goes on and there is a good chance your engine won't fail ,then go to your oil and filter choice, warranty purposes.
 
Shaeffers Supreme 9000 5w-40 is great stuff, and is only $13 a gallon. It's a synthetic made of Grp III and PAO oils. Great for large diesels.
 
Welcome to the group and your first post.

I have no idea what the factory says you should use in the Cat. I would stick with factory recommendations, both viscosity, SAE grades, and anything else.

As for your Duramax, I have a 2003 Duramax. The specs for that call for a 15w-40, with an alternate recommendation of 5w-40. I think 5w-30 is a little too thin.

Synthetic choices in the 5w-40 grade include Shell Rotella Synthetic and Mobil Delvac 1, also marketed to the general public (with little or no difference in composition) as Mobil 1 Truck and SUV. I have used both of these oils in my Duramax with good results.
 
Rigby is correct in reconmending Schaeffers 5w-40 9000 supreme,the 15w-40 would also be fine,,,Personally I would NOT use 5w-30 Amsoil in this app,,,,Amsoil 15-40 maybe better,plus I would be carefull in saying 5w-30 ams is better than all others in this Cat engine as Cat reconmends their oil (Mobil) #30, or 15w-40,,,,,,,,or try Mystik 15w-40 is also a great lube ,,there is a reason why higher viscosity and TBN stability proper add pacs help correct and suspend deposits ,sulfurs,film strengh,fuel acids,ring sticking,heat,,,,,,,,etc...BL
 
I'm going to leave the 5W30 in the Genset until I get an oil sample out the handy-dandy S.O.S port. If it looks good, I might decide to stick with the 5W30 and just sample the heck out of it. I'll post the results.

Maybe this is something for another thread all together, but here's something that kind of corn-fuses me:

Both the Duramax, and the Cat call for 5W30 if the temp can ever get below 5 degrees F. Both call for progressivly heavier grade oils as the ambiant temps go up. The part of that that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is that if the cooling system is working correctly, and the oil cooler/heat exchanger is working correctly, then 5W30, 15-40 or just plain old SAE 30, is all going to run at the same oil temp once the engine is up to load and warmed up, regardless of outdoor temp. If 5W30 can work in an engine at 0 degrees F, and works fine under load when the engine is up to temp, why can't that oil perform just as well when it's 95 outside? I understand why SAE 30 when it's 10 below outside is a really bad idea, but I don't understand why 5W30 is a bad idea when it's 95 outside.
 
I'll also go copy the oil chart off the Cat's oil cooler that tells what grades to use at various outdoor temps, and get it posted in the next 24 hours.
 
From the sticker on the side of the engine:

Oil Capacity:10 Gallons

Change Interval Every 250 hours, 1 year, or 2500 gallons of fuel consumed

LUBRICANT VISCOSITIES FOR TEMP RANGES:

SPC 0W/30 -40F to 86F.
SPC 5W/20 -22F to 50F
SAE 10W: -4F to 50F
SAE 10W30: -4F 104F
SAE 15W40: 5F to 122F
SAE 30: 32F to 104F
SAE 40: 41F to 122F

For use of high sulphur fuel, use Cat oils or API CD, CE, CCMC D3, MIl-L-2104E
 
Use a CI-4 rated diesel engine oil 15/40 wt chevron delo and shell rotella are great change out on hours run with an UOA'S as a guidline.
bruce
 
So, does this oil allow the genset to go online sooner? Marketing guys would probably love to hear about this. I wonder if a 0w40 would work even better.
 
quote:

Originally posted by SomeName:
From the sticker on the side of the engine:

Oil Capacity:10 Gallons

Change Interval Every 250 hours, 1 year, or 2500 gallons of fuel consumed

LUBRICANT VISCOSITIES FOR TEMP RANGES:

SPC 0W/30 -40F to 86F.
SPC 5W/20 -22F to 50F
SAE 10W: -4F to 50F
SAE 10W30: -4F 104F
SAE 15W40: 5F to 122F
SAE 30: 32F to 104F
SAE 40: 41F to 122F

For use of high sulphur fuel, use Cat oils or API CD, CE, CCMC D3, MIl-L-2104E


I have always wondered if there should be a chart for synthetic oils?
 
Before I retired, I worked with some large diesel generators. 16v92, 16 cylinder cat, and a fairbanks-morse. Our temps were not as cold as yours (10F) but still cool. Our engines all had block heaters and we found that the oil was not hot but very warm. As we were required to be at full power within 8 seconds warm oil was a necessity. SAE 40 was all we used in these gensets and the oil was changed once per year. All of the gensets were at least 17 years old as they were there when I got there and still going when I left. The secret is in the fact that the heaters functioned all the time and the oil was warm and pumped very easily. Due to the power of your engine, the need for a strong film strength on the rod bearing would be called for IMHO. 15W40 would be a good choice.

By-the-way, 250 hours would equate to about 10k miles if in a truck or bus.
 
A buddy of mine I work for in my leisure time has 9 trucks w/Cat 475 power that run Rotella T 0w40 full synth in winter months.
The trucks run 12~14 hour days for 5 day/wk.
Trucks haul 55000Kgs [122 000#'s] up 4 good hills loading engine foot.to.the.floor in the basement at anywhere from 1200~1400 for several minutes.
January starting temps at -30C [-22f]

One of the reasons likes it so much is for cold start, the engines turn over quickly on cold days and from extended drain he finds it easier to schedule the truck to get in the shop, can plan ahead longer.

Has several Duramax that run the same oil.

UOA's come back good in all units.
 
Have you considered running a thicker oil and adding an oil pan heater? Sounds like a perfect application to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top