Yeah the fuel economy difference between E-10 and E-0 is really not much.
pure gas
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I get 2 to 3 mpg better with pure gas in my truck when I'm pulling a trailer. Going from 12 to 15 mpg over a 300 mile trip means I don't have to stop as early to refill.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
I get 2 to 3 mpg better with pure gas in my truck when I'm pulling a trailer. Going from 12 to 15 mpg over a 300 mile trip means I don't have to stop as early to refill.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
Sure bud. The only way you can get 30% better MPG is to ease off of the accelerator.
I get 2 to 3 mpg better with pure gas in my truck when I'm pulling a trailer. Going from 12 to 15 mpg over a 300 mile trip means I don't have to stop as early to refill.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
Sure bud. The only way you can get 30% better MPG is to ease off of the accelerator.
I have tried E0 gas in both my vehicles. Long story short I seem to have a short term increase of gas milage but it then settles back to same as using E10. At a forty cent per gallon higher cost I don't see the long term benefit to use it. If it were only ten cents I might use it all the time though. I still buy it for my small engines for summer use though. Manual for those machines say to avoid E10 gasoline.
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%.
Yep. When I have tested it, I never found more than 8% ethanol (never less than 7% either).
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%.
Yep. When I have tested it, I never found more than 8% ethanol (never less than 7% either).
Originally Posted by SwampDweller
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Which shows how much ethanol is subsidized with your tax dollars.
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Which shows how much ethanol is subsidized with your tax dollars.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
I get 2 to 3 mpg better with pure gas in my truck when I'm pulling a trailer. Going from 12 to 15 mpg over a 300 mile trip means I don't have to stop as early to refill.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
Sure bud. The only way you can get 30% better MPG is to ease off of the accelerator.
Guess not. Tested it several dozen times over the same stretch of highway going the same speed.
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
I get 2 to 3 mpg better with pure gas in my truck when I'm pulling a trailer. Going from 12 to 15 mpg over a 300 mile trip means I don't have to stop as early to refill.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
Sure bud. The only way you can get 30% better MPG is to ease off of the accelerator.
Guess not. Tested it several dozen times over the same stretch of highway going the same speed.
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by SwampDweller
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Which shows how much ethanol is subsidized with your tax dollars.
That sounds good until one realizes that ethanol is traded on the commodity exchanges just like any other fuel and the commodity market is what sets the price. Now there may be some incentives at the pump in terms of lower fuel taxes equating to lower pump price that makes ethanol blends cheaper, but that is not a subsidy pay out by the tax payers. That is simply less taxes being taken from the consumer at the pump. It may be incentivizing fuel selection but not subsidizing it. And how is taking less in taxes from consumers not a good thing?
Only in a socialist mindset is a reduction in taxes collected from the consumer a subsidy by the tax payers because everything belongs to the collective and if one part of the collective benefits then it must be coming from others in the collective.
Originally Posted by SwampDweller
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Which shows how much ethanol is subsidized with your tax dollars.
That sounds good until one realizes that ethanol is traded on the commodity exchanges just like any other fuel and the commodity market is what sets the price. Now there may be some incentives at the pump in terms of lower fuel taxes equating to lower pump price that makes ethanol blends cheaper, but that is not a subsidy pay out by the tax payers. That is simply less taxes being taken from the consumer at the pump. It may be incentivizing fuel selection but not subsidizing it. And how is taking less in taxes from consumers not a good thing?
Only in a socialist mindset is a reduction in taxes collected from the consumer a subsidy by the tax payers because everything belongs to the collective and if one part of the collective benefits then it must be coming from others in the collective.
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by SwampDweller
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Which shows how much ethanol is subsidized with your tax dollars.
That sounds good until one realizes that ethanol is traded on the commodity exchanges just like any other fuel and the commodity market is what sets the price. Now there may be some incentives at the pump in terms of lower fuel taxes equating to lower pump price that makes ethanol blends cheaper, but that is not a subsidy pay out by the tax payers. That is simply less taxes being taken from the consumer at the pump. It may be incentivizing fuel selection but not subsidizing it. And how is taking less in taxes from consumers not a good thing?
Only in a socialist mindset is a reduction in taxes collected from the consumer a subsidy by the tax payers because everything belongs to the collective and if one part of the collective benefits then it must be coming from others in the collective.
LOL. Showing your ignorance, again.
Here you go Einstein:
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/jul/01/does-ethanol-bring-down-price-gasoline/
Quote
Ethanol reduced gas prices by 89 cents per gallon in 2010," says one ad. "Ethanol reduced the average American's household gasoline bill by more than $800. If ethanol disappeared, gas prices could rise by as much as 92 percent."
The ad blitz is timed to the latest round in the debate about federal subsidies for ethanol.
One hotly contested federal subsidy offers producers a credit of 45 cents for every gallon of ethanol blended with gasoline. The credit - which is worth an estimated $6 billion a year -- had been scheduled to expire at the end of 2010, but Congress extended it for another year.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-b...ls-fuel-mandate-costs-american-taxpayers
So yeah, E-10 is cheaper than E-0 at the pump, but you have ALREADY paid for the difference in your tax bill.
Now, what were you mindlessly rambling on about with regards to socialism?????
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by SwampDweller
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Considering that was passes for E10 really is not 10%. It is likely no more than 8% at most. The law is clear that E10 cannot contain more than 10%. So to protect from inadvertently going over 10% and getting a fine, the fuel terminals will typically blend E10 at 8%. so the actual difference in mpg between E10 and E0 will never recover the additional cost of E0.
Let's say you buy E10 at a price of $1.91 a gallon like it is now near me. And for math purposes, you are getting 20 mpg on the stuff. That means you are spending 9.5 cents a mile.
And using the OP statement of E0 being 40 cents a gallon higher, or $2.31 a gallon, to break even on the 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost, the vehicle would have to get over 24 mpg on E0.. a 20% mpg improvement. I really don't think that is a reality.
When folks get past the warm fuzzy of mpg numbers only and actually calculate what it is costing them per mile, then E10 doesn't quite look all that bad nor does ethanol free fuel all that great. That is why I only buy E0 for my OPE, motorcycle, etc. My car and pickup do just fine on the lower cost ethanol blends.
Agree with tired trucker. For years we had a place that sold E0 for about 10 to 15 cents a gallon more than E10. I would fill up there whenever I passed by, but If it was more of a difference than that, no. Still get it for OPE and my boat.
Now it's more like 35 to 40 cents a gallon more.
Which shows how much ethanol is subsidized with your tax dollars.
That sounds good until one realizes that ethanol is traded on the commodity exchanges just like any other fuel and the commodity market is what sets the price. Now there may be some incentives at the pump in terms of lower fuel taxes equating to lower pump price that makes ethanol blends cheaper, but that is not a subsidy pay out by the tax payers. That is simply less taxes being taken from the consumer at the pump. It may be incentivizing fuel selection but not subsidizing it. And how is taking less in taxes from consumers not a good thing?
Only in a socialist mindset is a reduction in taxes collected from the consumer a subsidy by the tax payers because everything belongs to the collective and if one part of the collective benefits then it must be coming from others in the collective.
LOL. Showing your ignorance, again.
Here you go Einstein:
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/jul/01/does-ethanol-bring-down-price-gasoline/
Quote
Ethanol reduced gas prices by 89 cents per gallon in 2010," says one ad. "Ethanol reduced the average American's household gasoline bill by more than $800. If ethanol disappeared, gas prices could rise by as much as 92 percent."
The ad blitz is timed to the latest round in the debate about federal subsidies for ethanol.
One hotly contested federal subsidy offers producers a credit of 45 cents for every gallon of ethanol blended with gasoline. The credit - which is worth an estimated $6 billion a year -- had been scheduled to expire at the end of 2010, but Congress extended it for another year.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-b...ls-fuel-mandate-costs-american-taxpayers
So yeah, E-10 is cheaper than E-0 at the pump, but you have ALREADY paid for the difference in your tax bill.
Now, what were you mindlessly rambling on about with regards to socialism?????
Not to mention all the legislation that guarantees a market for fuel ethanol and grants ethanol waivers for evaporative emissions not granted to any othrr gasoline blending stock, and the whole issue of RINs costs and trading.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ing-killed-by-low-gas-prices#Post4960860
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ing-killed-by-low-gas-prices#Post4960860
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
I get 2 to 3 mpg better with pure gas in my truck when I'm pulling a trailer. Going from 12 to 15 mpg over a 300 mile trip means I don't have to stop as early to refill.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
Sure bud. The only way you can get 30% better MPG is to ease off of the accelerator.
Guess not. Tested it several dozen times over the same stretch of highway going the same speed.
It's OK laws of physics and chemistry do not apply to you.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
I get 2 to 3 mpg better with pure gas in my truck when I'm pulling a trailer. Going from 12 to 15 mpg over a 300 mile trip means I don't have to stop as early to refill.
I ALWAYS use pure gas in my atv that has twin carburetors, and any engines that sit for months on end.
Sure bud. The only way you can get 30% better MPG is to ease off of the accelerator.
Guess not. Tested it several dozen times over the same stretch of highway going the same speed.
It's OK laws of physics and chemistry do not apply to you.
Filled my pickup with E85 for $.99 a gallon yesterday.
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by SwampDweller
Einstein, eh? Well, Jethro, you linked to an article from 2011. All Ethanol subsidies were dropped from the Agriculture Bill in 2011 which ended ethanol subsidies in January of 2012. Just like I stated, Ethanol is traded on the commodity exchanges. There might be a little thumb on the scales in terms of making a market for it, but what an ethanol producer gets for the stuff is what the market says he gets. There is no direct taxpayer subsidy going to ethanol production.
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by SwampDweller
TiredTrucker said:
Einstein, eh? Well, Jethro, you linked to an article from 2011. All Ethanol subsidies were dropped from the Agriculture Bill in 2011 which ended ethanol subsidies in January of 2012. Just like I stated, Ethanol is traded on the commodity exchanges. There might be a little thumb on the scales in terms of making a market for it, but what an ethanol producer gets for the stuff is what the market says he gets. There is no direct taxpayer subsidy going to ethanol production.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01/donald-trump-ethanol-subsidy-support-bad-taxpayers/
Quote
And the federal government not only requires the use of ethanol; it also subsides it. Tax credits between 1978 and 2012 cost the Treasury as much as $40 billion. Moreover, numerous other federal programs, spanning multiple agencies, allot billions of dollars to ethanol in the form of grants, loan guarantees, tax credits, and other subsidies.
Taxpayers suffer in other ways, too. Vehicles can drive fewer miles per gallon using ethanol blends than they would with pure gasoline. So Americans end up spending an extra $10 billion per year for fuel, the Institute for Energy Research estimates.
Quote
And the federal government not only requires the use of ethanol; it also subsides it. Tax credits between 1978 and 2012 cost the Treasury as much as $40 billion. Moreover, numerous other federal programs, spanning multiple agencies, allot billions of dollars to ethanol in the form of grants, loan guarantees, tax credits, and other subsidies.
Taxpayers suffer in other ways, too. Vehicles can drive fewer miles per gallon using ethanol blends than they would with pure gasoline. So Americans end up spending an extra $10 billion per year for fuel, the Institute for Energy Research estimates.
for me the E0 is purchased solely for my small engines equipped with carbs and/or metal gas tank('81 Ford F100) with a recommended proportion(in this forum anyway) of TCW3, Stabil and a touch of Regane. That E10 is bad, bad, bad for your carbed/ metal tank equipment.
Yes, although I'll always miss them to some degree, I'm glad I sold off my muscle cars while MTBE was still in widespread use, before ethanol was spread across the nation.
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