Mann filter does not have bypass or ADBV - Should I be concerned?

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I recently cut a filter open that came off my '07 Pacifica, a Mann model no. W920/17. I purchased this filter from Rockauto for about $5, which I thought was a fair deal, as other Mann filters I've cut open have been good quality. I was surprised to see nothing inside the filter except the media cartridge and a metal leaf spring. No bypass valve or ADBV. Filter overall looked cheap, media thin with a slight waviness to it, thin can. Not what I remember from other Mann filters. This particular one was made in Germany.

I'm concerned about the lack of bypass valve but I realize not all vehicles require one (mostly GM's I thought); not sure about this application. Anyone know if the Chrysler 3.5L/4.0L engines have a bypass built into the engine? The ADBV isn't a deal breaker as the filter is mounted completely vertical underneath the engine. I ran the oil/filter about 5k, hoping the lack of a bypass is no big deal, but looking for input. This particular filter size is equiv. to a Fram PH16, and the Fram product DOES have a bypass (@ 12psi) and ADBV. Rockauto product info page says "Silicone ADBV" and "teflon-coated bypass valve where applicable." Thoughts?
 
The Mann is the wrong application for 07 Pacifica. It xrefs to the Fram PH2844 (no adbv and no bypass) used mainly on OPE engines. No adbv unlikely to hurt anything. No bypass could be another matter but too late now. If the media looked normal and it's running ok I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

The PH16 has adbv and filter bypass, which means no engine block bypass.
https://www.fram.com/parts-search/P...A1AGwACACwA6fABlSU9mAoAXYQBF0i6qQBUIALpA
 
Send an email to Mann asking why they spec a no-bypass, no-ADBV filter for your Pacifica
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Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Send an email to Mann asking why they spec a no-bypass, no-ADBV filter for your Pacifica...
As noted by knerml, Mann ( Mann online catalog ) doesn't list an oil filter application for the 07 Pacifica. The OP says he purchased the Mann from RA and they do list the topic Mann as an option for both Pacifica engines. That being the case, imo emailing Mann would do little or no good. Seems to me RA should be the one receiving an email.

'Unless there's more to the story', I think I'd be fairly ticked (being very kind) at RA and want an explanation from them.
 
Even when purchasing online, I still prefer to confirm with the filter manufacturer's catalogue. That being said, Rock Auto shouldn't be providing wrong information like this.
 
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I'm sure all Rock Auto cares about is that the filter physically fits on the vehicle...
'IF' that's true, in this case a completely unacceptable response.

I frequently use the RA site to look up and confirm parts #s and applications on other sites like Amazon and ebay. Usually when ready to buy, I do it concert with the manufacturer of the part's site, eg., spark plugs NGK site, for last brake rotors Raybestos site, Akebono brake pad site. IME RA always has been 'spot on' with part # s.

I was surprised to see RA listed the Mann OF for not just one Pacifica engine model, but both. I suppose what it shows (as mentioned), that even with something as common as an oil filter, if unfamiliar with part # best to confirm with the manufacturer site prior to purchase.
 
Rock auto listed incorrect filter for my father's Toyota ch-r. when I told them my father's car had a spin on not the cartridge kind they told me their current database only list cartridge style and that was all to it.. that they would Cross reference the filter if I gave them the oe part number. I said no thanks I can do that on my own and give the locals my business.
 
Originally Posted by Sayjac


I frequently use the RA site to look up and confirm parts #s and applications on other sites like Amazon and ebay. Usually when ready to buy, I do it concert with the manufacturer of the part's site, eg., spark plugs NGK site, for last brake rotors Raybestos site, Akebono brake pad site. IME RA always has been 'spot on' with part # s.




With the time spent cross referencing to make sure you get the right part are you still saving money at RA? Curious.
 
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by Sayjac
..I frequently use the RA site to look up and confirm parts #s and applications on other sites like Amazon and ebay. Usually when ready to buy, I do it concert with the manufacturer of the part's site, eg., spark plugs NGK site, for last brake rotors Raybestos site, Akebono brake pad site. IME RA always has been 'spot on' with part # s.
..With the time spent cross referencing to make sure you get the right part are you still saving money at RA? Curious....
Absolutely. A few clicks on the internet to confirm part #s with manufacturer prior to purchase, no biggie ime. Examples used didn't always result in purchase from RA. Last two examples, recent rotors and pads, one resulted in purchase from RA (rotors), the other for Akebono pads from True Blue Auto Parts through ebay. Both were lowest price I could find for part I desired.

In other words I confirm part prior to purchase no matter seller, not just RA. I've found Amazon to be the least reliable on correct part # confirmation. Occasionally a part they say won't work is correct and vice versa. However, generally speaking ime they are on target.
 
Strange, I thought they must have grouped the Mann filter incorrectly with all filters that interchange with a PH16, but that doesn't seem so. It appears it's just the Pacifica models-- Even the 2006 which has the 3.5L engine, and any Pacifica with the 3.8L OHV engine brings the Mann filter up. That 3.8L is the same engine used in Chrysler's minivans, but the Mann filter isn't listed for the minivan applications, even though they also use a PH16 style filter.

Wonder how this error came about, some low paid data entry person just click the wrong box? I'll send them an E-mail and ask that they refund me the $5 or send a new filter for the headache.
 
Attempted to bring this issue to their attention and received an unsatisfactory / ignorant response. Looks like I'll be shopping elsewhere when able! Here is my back and forth with them:


> wrote:
>
> Dear folks,
>
> A recent order of mine (Order no. 87040925) contained an oil filter (MANN W92017) for the following application:
>
> 2007 Chrysler Pacifica 4.0L V6
>
> This oil filter is not the correct type for this vehicle. This was discovered after I'd already installed and used the filter. I am certain of this because I contacted Mann directly (including their online catalog.)
>
> https://catalog.mann-filter.com/NA/eng/oenumbersresult/245404515122018011724
>
> https://catalog.mann-filter.com/NA/eng/vehicle/MANN-FILTER%20Katalog%20Nordamerika/Vehicles/CARS%20%2B%20TRANSPORTERS/CHRYSLER/2007/Pacifica%20V6%20241%204.0L%20F.I.%20(VIN%20X)%20(T81421)
>
> I became suspicious after I disassembled the filter and found it to lack both an internal bypass valve and anti-drainback valve, which are both required for this application. The only attribute that this Mann filter shares with the correct model (Fram PH16 or equivalent) is a 3/4-16 thread, which means the filter will physically fit, but will not function as intended. This could possibly cause severe engine damage, a fact I'm quite upset about given that the filter is listed on your site as being correct for a 2007 Chrysler Pacifica.
>
> I write this note primarily to inform you so this situation does not repeat with another customer. I ask that the price for this filter be given as store credit or refund due to the error, which has the potential to be catastrophic.
>
> If you require further information or clarification, I encourage you to contact Mann at
> [email protected]. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
>
> Regards,
>


On 12/14/18 9:15 PM, RockAuto Customer Service wrote:
> Dear ,
>
> We're sorry that the part you received was different than you expected. We have investigated the issue, and have found no evidence that this part is listed incorrectly. This part has never had a fitment or functional issue in the past.
>
> Additionally, RockAuto has a 30-Day Return Policy in which we can accept returns. Your order was placed on 6/15/2018. We're sorry, but we're not able to accept a return for refund, credit, or exchange at this time.
>
> In the future, please arrange your return or report an order problem using our Order Status & Returns page within the first 30 days after your order was placed, and we will be able to assist you.
>
> We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. For further information, please see our Help pages or click the links below:
>
> What is your return policy?
> Can I return a part after 30 days?
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Trace
> RockAuto Customer Service
>
> RockAuto HELP
> http://www.rockauto.com


Folks,

The listing / vehicle application is a blatant error plain and simple. Chrysler specifies a filter with both an internal bypass valve and anti-drainback valve for this engine/application, both of which are not present on the aforementioned Mann oil filter. This filter DOES NOT cross reference to the correct PH16 equivalent as noted in my earlier E-mail.

I couldn't care less about the $5, but saving someone else the trouble should they order this filter (which will physically fit, but not otherwise compatible) was worth the time I spent sending an e-mail.

If you folks would contact Mann, they would have no trouble explaining the above to you, and how dangerous it is to run a filter that lacks these two important features.

The disregard for customer service and/or follow-up on a such an important oversight is very alarming-- to the effect that I will avoid ordering products from RA in the future. No response to this E-mail is necessary.

Thank you,
 
Don't use a GM-intended oil filter on a Chrysler product. Many GMs call for oil filters that don't have a bypass thingy and ADBV. The AC Delco PF61 is a perfect example of staying with OEM parts and not blame aftermarker oil filter producers that offer generic replacements that meet the diameter specs .....and little or nothing else.

Use the correct oil filter for your vehicle. It doesn't have to be OEM Name-brand. It just has to meet specs and it's your job to investigate that first (before purchase).
 
Interesting response from RA, and obviously unacceptable. They "found no evidence that this part is listed incorrectly." and " This part has never had a fitment or functional issue in the past", likely for several reasons. One, it screwed on (fitment) and didn't leak (observable function). Two, no one has previously cut one open and noticed it doesn't have the spec'd filter parts, adbv and bypass. And three, at least to their knowledge, at this point nothing catastrophic has occurred as a result of it's use.

It sounds like you contacted M&H prior to the email, which was good to confirm the online catalog results.

I would be interested to know where RA got the information that topic Mann is the correct/spec part. Or as mentioned, since it had similar exterior characteristics to correct part, ie, filter size, gasket diameter and thread pitch, they took it on themselves to make it a Pacifica OF option.

Don't blame you for being [censored] at RA, based on all information provided, I would be too. Certainly seems they dropped the ball on this one.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Don't use a GM-intended oil filter on a Chrysler product. Many GMs call for oil filters that don't have a bypass thingy...


Common sense and not possible anyways, so what is your point?-- one is 18mm x 1.5, the other 3/4-16 (most Chrysler vehicles). Don't use a Hyundai filter on a Mercedes, same thing.

Quote
Use the correct oil filter for your vehicle. It doesn't have to be OEM Name-brand. It just has to meet specs and it's your job to investigate that first (before purchase).


I disagree 110%. If Rockauto lists that filter as fitting a given application, it is THEIR problem, not mine if it doesn't fit or is wrong type. Any lawyer would agree with me.

As a consumer, it's my job to make informed choices-- not my job to police catalogs nor is it practical to do that with all purchases.
 
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Don't use a GM-intended oil filter on a Chrysler product. Many GMs call for oil filters that don't have a bypass thingy...


Common sense and not possible anyways, so what is your point?-- one is 18mm x 1.5, the other 3/4-16 (most Chrysler vehicles). Don't use a Hyundai filter on a Mercedes, same thing.

Quote
Use the correct oil filter for your vehicle. It doesn't have to be OEM Name-brand. It just has to meet specs and it's your job to investigate that first (before purchase).


I disagree 110%. If Rockauto lists that filter as fitting a given application, it is THEIR problem, not mine if it doesn't fit or is wrong type. Any lawyer would agree with me.

As a consumer, it's my job to make informed choices-- not my job to police catalogs nor is it practical to do that with all purchases.


I never claimed, nor stated anything about issues with fit.
Also, Rockauto does not claim responsibility for inner and even visible changes to filters. They only post the pics and provide the products, given them by suppliers.

For instance: If you find a silicone ADBV Purolator at rockauto and receive a nitrile ADBV instead, you can exchange it with Rockauto....... on your dime. They will NOT pay RETURN shipping for that exchange. They claim the suppliers have enough leeway for product changes and are allowed x-amount of time to make picture and/or language changes that exist next to the pictured oil filter.

Rockauto once showed the wrong Purolator 402 pic (silicone ADBV) for like three years. I used to check for Purolator updated pics every six months or-so. Finally I got tired for looking for the upgraded version, so I stopped looking permanently. For all I know, that same wrong pic might be still there on their website.
 
RockAuto is a joke of a company. A few years ago I bought a set of wheel bearings for my Dodge Sprinter and they did not fit. One of the bearings had 2 reversed digits in the part number abced instead of the correct abcde part number. I contacted them and they said that their listing is correct, they sold lots of them and nobody complained, but they have a 30 day return policy. Well, I was out of the 30 day window and asked them since they sold me the wrong bearing to let me send it back (brand new, never installed, since it was the wrong size) and replace it with the correct part number that I provided them, but they would not. I decided to spend my money with other companies that stand behind what they sell.

A few months later I checked again and all of a sudden they listed the correct bearing. Not worth my time to mess with them any more though.
 
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IMO, an RA filter pic showing a silicone adbv where a nitrile adbv is really used, or vice versa, is not analogous to the OP's issue. While it would be a misrepresentation of the adbv, as long as the filter is the correct ie., spec equivalent part, highly unlikely to be any kind of a significant functional issue. Toyota for instance uses nitrile adbvs in their OEM Denso filters.

Otoh, in the OP's case a confirmed non spec, non equivalent filter with no adbv and no bypass listed could be and could have been a significant functional issue. Especially the lack of a bypass.

So while both are misrepresentations and inaccurate, the OP's incorrect RA listed non spec Mann filter application has the potential to produce a significant functional issue.
 
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