Top Tier - How do We Know Privately Owned Stations Comply??

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
2,970
Location
Pennsylvania
I asked the above question as part of another thread but thought I would start a new thread here as I went off topic in the other thread. For example, there is an Exxon station near me, privately owned. How do I know he is complying with the Top Tier additives requirements when he fills his tank? Could he not just tell the tank truck driver to leave the adds out and pay less for his fuel? I have only ever seen one Top Tier station, a Valero, have stickers on the pump saying that they are Top Tier. I always use Top Tier listed stations for gasoline but I want to know what guarantee I have that privately owned stations really comply.
 
I'm sure it's part of his franchise contract requirement with Exxon.

That said, could he still cheat? Maybe.

Surely though you don't think the truck driver is in charge of the additive package, do you?

The truck drive is in charge of driving the truck and filling the underground tank. Only.

And you really don't think the truck driver has any input or control over the cost the station owner is charged, do you?
He reports gallons delivered........ But that's it.....
 
Around here - and you're not that far - many stations are just "branded" with well-known names for their name recognition. For good or bad, "BP" stations can be franchised to use the logo, etc, etc. They may have coffee cups with the BP logo on them among other things. We used to live near one and they did not always use BP fuel. I've seen trucks from other brands filling their tanks and have seen private suppliers filling them. Same with Valero, Marathon, and others. In fact, neither of those brands have the best reputation, at least around here. They are sometimes in rougher parts of town, not the most well-kept facilities, and so on.
 
I don't think the franchise owner would mess with it and take a chance on losing his franchise that he paid big money to get. I know the Shell station I go to does not have the pumps marked as TT.
 
The Irving I frequently use added Top Tier stickers to their pumps when they actually started selling TT gas, but I'm honestly not sure if they're still there.
 
I don't think you can guarantee anything unless you test it yourself. However, if the owner is not getting the Exxon additive package, then said owner is surely violating the terms of the franchise contract. I would imagine Exxon has procedures in place to ensure the quality of the fuel. I'd bet it involves Exxon controlling the distribution of fuel and the franchisee pays Exxon for the gas. If Exxon is trusting them to do this themselves, then that's risky for them. Same would go for Shell or any other franchise. I also think Top Tier has a certification process that has some safeguards in it.

Violating a franchise agreement like that could be costly. Not only would the owner potentially lose the franchise, but might also face serious law suits, as well, or even criminal charges, depending on the state and fraud laws.

I have emailed Top Tier and asked them the question, so I'll post their reply when it comes. It might also be good to contact Exxon and ask them what they do to insure an independent franchise is meeting their standards.
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
We used to live near one and they did not always use BP fuel. I've seen trucks from other brands filling their tanks and have seen private suppliers filling them.

Fuel retailers, branded or not, get delivered from nearest tank farm. Tank farms are brand agnostic. Additives specific to the buyers brand are added at the tank farm before shipping out. Doesn't matter what is on the container that delivers the fuel. It matters that the tank farm does the correct job on additives.
 
I thought there were inspectors that spot checked fuel stations. Around here, owners of an inner city Citgo station were charged with adding water to their fuel...
 
Originally Posted by Danno
Fuel retailers, branded or not, get delivered from nearest tank farm. Tank farms are brand agnostic. Additives specific to the buyers brand are added at the tank farm before shipping out. Doesn't matter what is on the container that delivers the fuel. It matters that the tank farm does the correct job on additives.

A Marathon (for example, common around here) fuel tank farm/delivery vehicle isn't going to provide the additives to make the fuel "Exxon" or "BP" or whatever, right ? I don't see the station personnel doing it either.
 
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
I thought there were inspectors that spot checked fuel stations. Around here, owners of an inner city Citgo station were charged with adding water to their fuel...

Around here, the county's "auditor" will do checks like that. They're the ones that make sure when the pump says it dispensed 1 gallon, that it really did dispense 1 gallon (or within a margin of error they allow).

Now, a company such as Shell, Sunoco, BP, etc surely has quality-control folks who might also do spot-checks and look for excessive amounts of water, contaminants, and so on.
 
I asked the corner store manager and he said he gets both ... the measurement guy and a QAQC guy from Exxon ...
 
All the brand name franchises are contracted to deliver the gasoline as advertised. Each of the major gasoline franchisors includes specific marker chemicals in their add pack which is blended as the tanker truck is filled. They do this so their inspectors can verify that the franchisee's are selling the correct product. Franchisee's can expect random inspections to ensure that they are not selling unbranded gas. This is true whether the brand is top-tier or not. (local brands such as Kwik-Fill, FasTrac, and Wawa are not majors, so you can expect the generic gas with the basic federally mandated add pack)
 
Actually according to a driver I spoke with, they do have control. The driver is told what switches to turn for their respective client. Each client is different. So, if the wrong switch or line is used, so yes. According to this driver, the additive is already in the product. He told me that there is one refinery in the state.

Every state may be different. IDK?

I doubt an owner would risk his/her franchise. The real money is made in condiments not fuel. A station owner once told me that she only made a penny per gallon. Alcohol, tobacco, soft drinks, snacks is where the money is. This was a Shell owner.
 
The answer is you either trust the retailer to be selling what they are advertising or you don't.

If they are selling branded product, then their contract likely specifies what they are able to sell under the brand. It is up to the brand to test/followup with the retailer to verify they are selling what they are supposed to be.

Most state testing agencies are strictly testing the volume measurement - verifying that when the pump says it has dispensed 1 gallon of something, it actually did. They are not going to test for top tier or not - if anything, it would be does it pass at the rated octane and contain the minimum required detergents, if they even go that far.

Regardless of whether there is one local source or many, there are multiple additive packs available to comply with whichever brand requirements. Doesn't matter whose name is on the terminal or even whose name is on the truck. There are many fuel jobbers that carry multiple brands, use the marketing on their trucks, but don't only deliver to that brand.
 
Originally Posted by Onetor
The real money is made in condiments not fuel. A station owner once told me that she only made a penny per gallon. Alcohol, tobacco, soft drinks, snacks is where the money is. This was a Shell owner.

No doubt that is very accurate. Anyone see places that only sell fuel nowadays ? Not around here !

Plus, how do they deal with the price fluctuations ? Around here, it's crazy. One chain - Speedway - can and does frequently raise their prices by $0.30 or $0.50 on any random day at random times. Most stations will follow suit and change their prices not long after Speedway. Then it's a trickle effect with stations further away until they've all raised their prices to match. There is a Murphy (Walmart) station next to a Speedway and they always hold out for 1-2 days. Speedway could be $2.50/gallon and they're still at $1.99, $2.09, etc. Sometimes Speedway goes right back down to the price they were 2-3 days prior or sometimes they'll slowly lower. It's a ridiculous game they play !
 
Originally Posted by MNgopher
Most state testing agencies are strictly testing the volume measurement - verifying that when the pump says it has dispensed 1 gallon of something, it actually did. They are not going to test for top tier or not - if anything, it would be does it pass at the rated octane and contain the minimum required detergents, if they even go that far.

Not disagreeing with anything and what you touch on about the 'fuel' itself, I doubt any county or state agency gets into detergents or additives. As long as it meets the chemical spec of "gasoline fuel", they're done. Too much water has to be a factor to chemically still call it gasoline not to mention the fraud aspect of watering it down. That falls under the customer not getting the amount of fuel that they paid for too, which is their primary check.

The detergents and additives are 'benefits' on top of the base fuel and marketing issues. A gov't auditor doesn't care about that, at least not the weights and measure auditor types.
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
The detergents and additives are 'benefits' on top of the base fuel and marketing issues. A gov't auditor doesn't care about that, at least not the weights and measure auditor types.
Guaranteed they do, considering that pumps here (Canada) have the "May contain up to 10% ethanol" you can bet they are testing fuel samples in a lab. They are going to analyze the entire sample including the detergents and possible adulterants, not just look at ethanol and water content.
 
If Shell advertises their gas as top tier, or has whatever additives in it, the Shell branded station will sell that gas. There always could be cheaters in anything.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top