Amsoil TBN versus M1 / RP in ASTM D2896 Testing

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Signature Series cleans up the competition
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In general, the higher an oil's TBN, the better its ability to neutralize contaminants such as combustion by-products and acidic materials. Higher TBN oils neutralize a greater amount of acidic material, which results in longer oil life and cleaner engines.

TBN levels decrease as the oil remains in service. When the level reaches a point where it can no longer protect against corrosion, the oil must be changed.

The TBN Test
The Total Base Number Test (ASTM D2896) uses a series of chemical reactions to measure the alkaline additives in a motor oil. We recognize the value of formulating motor oils with high TBN, and AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil features the highest TBN of the oils tested.

AMSOIL Signature Series is fortified with a heavy treatment of detergent additive and it delivers 30% more acid neutralizing power than Mobil 1, and 36% more than Royal Purple, helping engines to stay cleaner, longer.

The AMSOIL Advantage
AMSOIL synthetic lubricants feature a large dose of quality additives that consistently deliver high TBN for the life of the oil. They neutralize acidic contaminants and keep them in suspension to maximize engine protection. AMSOIL lubricants use detergent and dispersant additives to significantly reduce sludge and carbon deposit formation. In the Total Base Number Test (ASTM D2896), AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil demonstrated the highest TBN of the oils featured in the test, helping it deliver reliable protection for extended drain intervals.



Fine Print:
1 - Based upon independent testing of Mobil 1 Annual Protection Full Synthetic 5W-30, Royal Purple High Performance 5W-30 and AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-30 in ASTM D2896. Oils purchased 05/03/18.

All trademarked names and images are the property of their respective owners and may be registered marks in some countries. No affiliation or endorsement claim, express or implied, is made by their use. All products advertised here are developed by AMSOIL for use in the applications shown.

Source: https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/mo...utm_campaign=PC_December_Newsletter_2018
 
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Starting TBN isn't the only factor either, TBN retention is. M1 AP doesn't have a super high TBN but if it decays at a slower rate than the AMSOIL it could potentially be serviceable just as long.

Not bashing AMSOIL here, just stating that starting TBN isn't the end all be all, if it was we'd be running lube meant for bunker fueled engines with a starting TBN of 50.
 
Judging by M1's claim of 20,000 miles and Amsoil's 25,000 miles I would suspect that the Amsoil would decay slower than the M1. Not bashing M1, just explaining that the above is most likely true over the longer term. Judging by my own runs, other members here and other members using bypass setup their Signature Series product does hold up for the long haul.
 
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There are also members well beyond 25,000 on Conventional HDEO with bypass, heck Aharmon runs 25,000 OCI with no bypass as do many Duramax owners. You don't need to spend Signature Series money to have extended drains, nor do you necessarily need a bypass to extend drain intervals.
 
Originally Posted by FlyNavyP3
There are also members well beyond 25,000 on Conventional HDEO with bypass, heck Aharmon runs 25,000 OCI with no bypass as do many Duramax owners. You don't need to spend Signature Series money to have extended drains, nor do you necessarily need a bypass to extend drain intervals.


I didn't claim that only Amsoil was the only one capable. Just posted new information, and then explained why I think their TBN would last past initial testing over that of M1 / RP because of the discussion you started on the subject is all.
 
Amsoil Signature Series oils' starting TBN is 12, which is relatively very high. It uses a lot of metallic detergents. I think most people don't understand TBN retention. Guess how much acid was neutralized if at one mileage the TBN was 2.0 and significantly later it was also 2.0?
 
for Ams price with shipping it should be better!! since they went mum + answer NO questions about base oils i QUIT using it!!
 
Originally Posted by benjy
for Ams price with shipping it should be better!! since they went mum + answer NO questions about base oils i QUIT using it!!

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I just knew in my BITOG of hearts as soon as I saw the AMSOIL email in my inbox today, that Stevie would be posting it up on the board this evening. Can't say I'm surprised since we all know Stevie is an Amsoil cheerleader.

Stevie, the only problem I have is, I don't think they've actually convinced me they have drawn a line from point A to point B for correlation in their claim. Today was the first time I've ever seen the combination:
Originally Posted by AMSOIL propaganda
In general, the higher an oil's TBN, the better its ability to neutralize contaminants such as combustion by-products and acidic materials. Higher TBN oils neutralize a greater amount of acidic material, which results in longer oil life and cleaner engines.


They didn't disclose: the testing lab; the test results with full details; the starting TBNs of the oils; the ending TBNs of the oils; the mileage tested; the engine used for the test; the fact that AMSOIL is the only oil in the test group that isn't API certified; and probably some other things that I missed.

However, that's not the thing that gave me pause. Not ONCE in all of the reading, discussions, white papers, personal research, etc, have I personally EVER seen any correlation between TBN and cleanliness, let alone as the main selling point. TBN and corrosion? Sure. TBN, TAN, and nitration? Sure. But TBN and sludge/varnish/pentane insolubles, the things that really cause engine issues and wear damage? Nope, I haven't seen that, and they didn't really do anything to change my mind, OR advance the discussion, OR do anything to educate consumers on why they should pick AMSOIL over the other two brands (with science!). All I saw was AMSOIL AMSOIL RAH RAH RAH!

And BTW, nothing negative about Stevie... we all know he gets all gushy about AMSOIL
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E-mail their tech-line instead of whining here.
smirk2.gif


I only posted it because it was new information release by them. As for being a "cheerleader", I am happy with the brand the and real world results I have with it as is everyone else with their "Darling" oil to them. Only difference is using Amsoil gets you flamed here versus using something off the shelf and there is NO reason here other than the nonsense and conjecture without facts to back it up.

But whatever... Won't shut me up from contributing here or talking about them where new information comes out and can be offered.
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You obviously skipped over the point where I said the AMSOIL email was in my inbox today, and skipped to the point where you took it personally. My whole post was that their "factual information" without any actual "facts" is just hot air. I'm not calling the tech line because if they really wanted to convince people, they would share THAT information in their press releases.
 
Just because it's in your inbox doesn't mean anything. I have all sorts of stuff sent to my inbox so I can keep tabs on different things. Doesn't mean I use the product but I like to be aware of what the companies are up to.

E-mail their tech line for the "factual" information if you want it. I have done so with asking them about Dexos and they were forward with their answers. Nothing to hide.
As I have said many times before they would have been sued into oblivion for making false claims but they are still here lawsuit free for over 40 years so I highly doubt they are hiding anything or using "shady" marketing as some make it out to be. (This isn't aimed at you).

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Amsoil seems to have a robust formula, capable of extended drain intervals, with a high starting TBN. How well it holds the TBN will have to be seen with UOAs.

I believe Amsoil is looking for ways to try and set themselves apart as better than the competition, in what ways they can. In this case, it is with the starting TBN.

So, at least on the gasoline side, Amsoil is really trying for the extended oil drain intervals with the Signature Series oils. On the diesel side, I don't think Amsoil is trying for super long extended drains. They say not to exceed 60,000 miles, 600 hours, or one year, whichever comes first.

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-30 can be used up to 100,000 miles, according to Mobil.

Here are some links.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...ynthetic-diesel-oil-5w-40/?code=DEOQT-EA

https://www.mobil.com/en/mobil-delvac/products/engine-oils/mobil-delvac-1/mobil-delvac-1-esp

https://www.thelubricantstore.com/mobil-delvac-1-esp-5w30-case-of-4-1-gal-containers
 
All my buddies have M3 and M5 so its Redline 10w60 all the way. I am going to still change my oil at OLM standards. I cant imagine going longer on oci than 10-12k on 4 qts.
 
Extended OCI's aren't for me. In fact if I were to buy a used car and in my screening process found the owner ran extended drain oils and used them as intended, I'd pass on the car. I also believe I'd be in good company with many members of this site.
 
Originally Posted by benjy
for Ams price with shipping it should be better!! since they went mum + answer NO questions about base oils i QUIT using it!!


Well, Amsoil really isn't as dramatically expensive as it is sometimes made out to be. I just got on their site and priced a case of 5w30 SS quarts and it came to about $9.17 a quart. That is PC pricing which includes free shipping. In my case, a round trip to town to buy anything is about $6 in gasoline at today's prices, so whatever price I could buy a case of the equivalent product would have to reflect the 50 cents a quart to go get it plus my time. The next step down, the XL line, the 5w30 is about $6.82 a quart (PC price and free shipping). And that one is about as good as anything one can buy off the shelf.

I don't really go in for wild drain intervals. I keep it simple. I change the oil in my pickup truck once a year. But it rarely goes more than 6000-7000 miles a year.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Extended OCI's aren't for me. In fact if I were to buy a used car and in my screening process found the owner ran extended drain oils and used them as intended, I'd pass on the car. I also believe I'd be in good company with many members of this site.

I'm running to the OLM on this fill and will do a UOA to establish the absolute limit and will just play within that number with a safety margin even though the limit is safe. For me it's not crawling under it in February with all the miles I do and judging by the miles my dad's went with me hauling a warehouse around in it on Dino oil for 200K (now at 300K), I'm not concerned with longevity in these PentaStars. His is a 2012 with the affected head too.
 
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Originally Posted by benjy
for Ams price with shipping it should be better!! since they went mum + answer NO questions about base oils i QUIT using it!!


Well, Amsoil really isn't as dramatically expensive as it is sometimes made out to be. I just got on their site and priced a case of 5w30 SS quarts and it came to about $9.17 a quart. That is PC pricing which includes free shipping. In my case, a round trip to town to buy anything is about $6 in gasoline at today's prices, so whatever price I could buy a case of the equivalent product would have to reflect the 50 cents a quart to go get it plus my time. The next step down, the XL line, the 5w30 is about $6.82 a quart (PC price and free shipping). And that one is about as good as anything one can buy off the shelf.

And you don't have to shop the sales and keep a stash, just order and have it shipped. That's what I love. We get hosed on non-sale oil here.
 
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