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newb looking for advice #4944854
12/06/18 07:41 AM
12/06/18 07:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
us1champ Offline OP
us1champ  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
Hello all,

Newb here on the forum. I have trolled it for a while and there is ALOT of stuff on here.

I want to try to simplify this without going overboard into info that really is beyond what i need lol.

I own a newer challenger that has a forged motor with a supercharger. i have wondered for a while about oils and what and how to look for. I see alot of what most call boutique oils out there
royal purples, driven, amsoil, ect.

my car when built called out for mobil 0w40.
one thing i notice on this oil was that it gets dirty very quick. that may not be a big deal but it bugs me..
i tried ( by a reccomendation ) shell rotella 5w40 and it seams to run alot cleaner.
this motor burns some oil ( no smoke ) but i have a wider ring pack for the supercharger and i think that plays into things.

SO my questions.
i read alot about moly and zdp being a big deal for oils and how important it is in performance engines more so over daily driver cars. is these oils like driven, amsoil ect better than the rest?
is oils like shell rotella ok to use?

i have looked at DT 40 from driven to try. amsoil 10w40 standard synthetics. and have looked at liquid moly as well as motul.. motul I have no clue what they would reccomend as there are a bunch of different varatious.
I also hear that RACING OILS have better properties than of the shelf oils and they don't have a api label due to harder on cat's for the exhaust ( I DON'T HAVE ANY CATS FYI )

i try not to get wrapped up in this stuff. just looking for a quality product that will help with bearing wear and maybe help slow the oil burning.
thanks for your help

chris

Last edited by us1champ; 12/06/18 07:42 AM.
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944862
12/06/18 07:57 AM
12/06/18 07:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,131
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,131
Virginia Beach
welcome

Quite the motor.

While you can't tell much from the color of oil, it's clear that the color bothers you. I think any quality synthetic Xw40, AMSOIL perhaps, or the Mobil 0W40, or the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W40, or a good 5W40 will serve you well. If you're bothered by the color, then, well, change it more often.

I would recommend sending it out for an analysis when you do change it. See what it's got for wear metals, how much TBN is left, how the viscosity is holding up. All good things to know and much more definitive than just color.

Last edited by Astro14; 12/06/18 07:58 AM.

32 Packard 15W40
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W40 M1
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944863
12/06/18 08:00 AM
12/06/18 08:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
us1champ Offline OP
us1champ  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
thanks astro

what is your thoughts on the oils like mentioned as far as the zinc's and moly's.. is there a general PEOPLE RECOMMEND THIS STUFF over others type?

i am guessing most send to blackstone for testing?

Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944873
12/06/18 08:11 AM
12/06/18 08:11 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 484
South Carolina
ka9mnx Offline
ka9mnx  Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 484
South Carolina
Moly is good in a motor oil but you don't need high ZN unless you are running a high lift, high spring pressure flat tappet cam. My choice for your engine would be Mobil1 0w-40. Color of oil would not bother me. High HP supercharged engines WILL use oil.


2005 Ranger 3.0 - M1 HM 5w-30/Motorcraft - (85+K)
2000 4Runner 3.4 - M1 HM 10w-30/Toyota - (250+K)
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar - (175+K)
1993 F150 4.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Motorcraft - (250+K)
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944874
12/06/18 08:16 AM
12/06/18 08:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,131
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,131
Virginia Beach
Without cats, your zinc levels can be higher, but you've still got O2 sensors, so I would skip the racing oils, or you might prematurely poison them, too.

The zinc and moly levels, by themselves, are only part of the story. Lots of really smart guys on this forum are in a better position to recommend specific additive chemistry than I am. How well the base stock retains its viscosity over time matters, as does the HTHS and the volatility.

But, my 500+ HP twin-turbo V-12 is happy with Mobil 1 0W40, up to 10,000 miles, based on analysis. I will say that I can't see the color in operation, there is no dipstick, but when I drain it, it looks decent - sort of a nice golden dark brown....even with 9 or 10 thousand miles on it.

I've got a few UOAs, here is my very first one: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2982174

And the latest: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../mobil-1-0w40-4945-mi-mercedes-s600-m275

From personal experience with Pennzoil Ultra 5W40 Euro formula, and this Mobil 1, including UOAs on both, I am of the opinion that good quality oil is good quality oil. Minute differences in additive levels and chemistry are simply points for oil nerds to argue about, not a basis for different performance in an engine.

So, I really would be OK using AMSOIL, Pennzoil, Castrol, Mobil as long as the specifications for your car are met. My car requires an MB 229.5, so I go to the list, and those four (and many more, including Liqui Moly) oil makers are on the Mercedes approved list, in viscosities 0W30, 0W40 and 5W40. Those four are also quite available, so if you need a bit of top-off oil, you're not running around trying to find something exotic. They're all good.

I'm not certain that spending more necessarily gets you more. The Mobil 1 0W40 that I run in my car (which now has 100,000 miles on it and will still light up traction control with ease) is cheap at Wal-Mart. About $25/jug.

I don't know enough about your engine to say use this product or that, so, as long as the oil meets specification, then, you're good to go. If it makes you feel better to shorten the interval, then shorten it, but I would go by a UOA from Blackstone, not just the color.

Last edited by Astro14; 12/06/18 08:18 AM.

32 Packard 15W40
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W40 M1
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944891
12/06/18 08:45 AM
12/06/18 08:45 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 68
Central MA
rsalan Offline
rsalan  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 68
Central MA
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40
Castrol Edge 0W-40

Use them rebates and you're GTG!

FYI, "racing" oils don't have the necessary detergency properties for everyday use I believe.


'17 Mustang GT - PUP 5W-20 / Puro BOSS
'16 X4 xDrive28i - BMW 0W-20 / MANN
'14 Civic LX - PP 0W-20 / FTG
'03 Matrix XR AWD - PP 5W-30 / FU
'00 Outback - PP 5W-30 / FU
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944893
12/06/18 08:52 AM
12/06/18 08:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 776
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 776
missouri
The trick is why it turns dark. Dark oil in many cases is fine to use, there are some counterintuitive effects where used oil within reason actually lubricates belter.

Dark can be from low tension and or larger end gaps on rings, commonly used on blown motors, that let more blowby past. The higher pressures in a blower motor also result in higher blowby. You want a motor oil that suspends those so you do not get sludge.
Or dark can be from thermal breakdown, and that is bad.

An oil analysis can tell you which it is.

If this motor uses spin on filters, you might also want to invest in a good oil filter cutter, so you can cut it open and look inside. If it is a cartridge, then you just look in the pleats for bad stuff.

Consider installing a good catch can for the PVC.

Enjoy that car, make good friends with your local tire dealer and find a good traffic lawyer if you have too much fun.

Rod

Last edited by ragtoplvr; 12/06/18 08:55 AM.
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944894
12/06/18 08:55 AM
12/06/18 08:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,344
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,344
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted by us1champ
i am guessing most send to blackstone for testing?

What is it on the Blackstone test that you would be looking at to determine suitability for your application?


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944898
12/06/18 08:59 AM
12/06/18 08:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
us1champ Offline OP
us1champ  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
thanks for the info.. well the motor is far from stock. that motor factory was 425 hp.. with the new pistons rods head work and blower it makes 678 to the tires. my concern has always been that api rated oil is for daily driver cars.. mine sits alot, not driven in winter, rain ect. and with high cylinder pressures i was considering looking at a what i would consider better oil.

i realize alot of videos, posts on the internet ect can be to SELL Things. the engine builder told me STAY AWAY FROM ANY OILS THAT HAVE API LABELS.. now some of that i am sure is old school thought.. some is of the mind set that api oils from what little i know have degraded values of zinc/moly ect over earlier yrs.. maybe that is why he suggested that.

Re: newb looking for advice [Re: ragtoplvr] #4944902
12/06/18 09:01 AM
12/06/18 09:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
us1champ Offline OP
us1champ  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
The trick is why it turns dark. Dark oil in many cases is fine to use, there are some counterintuitive effects where used oil within reason actually lubricates belter.

Dark can be from low tension and or larger end gaps on rings, commonly used on blown motors, that let more blowby past. The higher pressures in a blower motor also result in higher blowby. You want a motor oil that suspends those so you do not get sludge.
Or dark can be from thermal breakdown, and that is bad.

An oil analysis can tell you which it is.

If this motor uses spin on filters, you might also want to invest in a good oil filter cutter, so you can cut it open and look inside. If it is a cartridge, then you just look in the pleats for bad stuff.

Consider installing a good catch can for the PVC.

Enjoy that car, make good friends with your local tire dealer and find a good traffic lawyer if you have too much fun.

Rod



lol oh tires are not my friend.. although drag radials have helped.. i have a good catch can on the car already, i use wix oil filters the XP brand that are supposed to be better media.

Re: newb looking for advice [Re: kschachn] #4944903
12/06/18 09:02 AM
12/06/18 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
us1champ Offline OP
us1champ  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
iowa
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by us1champ
i am guessing most send to blackstone for testing?

What is it on the Blackstone test that you would be looking at to determine suitability for your application?



to be honest i am not sure.. that i why i am asking questions lol.

Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944924
12/06/18 09:32 AM
12/06/18 09:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,591
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,591
Idaho
It the engine rebuilt or factory? If rebuilt ask the builder. if it is factory stock start with the factory recommendations.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944930
12/06/18 09:37 AM
12/06/18 09:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 776
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 776
missouri
Motorcycle oils oils have pretty stout additive packs and are usually formulated to do well with infrequent use. They can be a good easily available alternative.

Also inboard motorboat and 4 cycle outboard oils are pretty stout and formulated for sitting unused a lot.

There are some very good racing oils

Rod

Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944941
12/06/18 09:54 AM
12/06/18 09:54 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 484
South Carolina
ka9mnx Offline
ka9mnx  Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 484
South Carolina
Originally Posted by us1champ
the engine builder told me STAY AWAY FROM ANY OILS THAT HAVE API LABELS.. now some of that i am sure is old school thought.. some is of the mind set that api oils from what little i know have degraded values of zinc/moly ect over earlier yrs.. maybe that is why he suggested that.

Well your engine builder is mostly right and why I don't use them. You don't want to use API Energy Conserving or Resource Conserving and ANY ILSAC oils. These are oils formulated on the lower [email protected] and HTHS for fuel economy. Look for oils with an ACEA rating of A3/B4, These oils are exempt from Euro fuel economy standards and are heavier (HTHS >3.5). I'm a Mobil1 guy so I know more about their oils but there are many with the ACEA ratings. What comes to mind are Mobil1 HM 10w-40 ([email protected] 16 and HTHS 3.9) and Mobil1 0w-40 ([email protected] 12.9 and HTHS 3.6). HDEO (diesel/gas multi fleet) oils of xw-40 may also be an option. Look for oils at the higher HTHS in the Xw-40 range.


2005 Ranger 3.0 - M1 HM 5w-30/Motorcraft - (85+K)
2000 4Runner 3.4 - M1 HM 10w-30/Toyota - (250+K)
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar - (175+K)
1993 F150 4.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Motorcraft - (250+K)
Re: newb looking for advice [Re: us1champ] #4944951
12/06/18 10:06 AM
12/06/18 10:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 631
N.A.
Onetor Offline
Onetor  Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 631
N.A.
First, Welcome to BITOG!

As mentioned above try Pennzoil Ultra Platinum (SRT) 0W40. It's on amazon. Now, one of my favorite boutique oil is Redline. It's a group 5 true synthetic ester oil. I would go for the 0W40. Redline performance oils are not certified.

Then there is Hyperlube (additive). It is a Polymer Ester for Extreme Pressure. It's an Anti wear additive. Check Ebay or Oreilly's Auto Parts. There are several threads about HyperLube. It's Good stuff!

Please post some pics of your Challenger!

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