European Fuel Prices...

[SonofJoe]

Fuel prices seem to be annoying our friends across The Channel.

So I did a bit of searching and found this table which compares the AVERAGE cost of gasoline & diesel in the main European countries (of which we are still one)....

https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

This says to me that 'les grenouilles' aren't that unfairly treated and that they actually pay less for their beloved 'gazole' than we do (quelle surprise!).

Still, any excuse for 'une émeute'...

 

[FordBroncoVWJeta]

Interesting how diesel is cheaper than gas, not that way here.

 

[SonofJoe]

In the UK, diesel is usually marginally more expensive than petrol. Both fuels are taxed 'equally' but because diesel has a higher density (a litre of diesel contains more energy than a litre of gasoline) the pump price is slightly higher.

Traditionally diesel in mainland Europe was way cheaper than gasoline because tax rates were set to favour diesel as this was regarded as 'farmer's fuel' (for tractors, etc). When I started going over to Europe on business in the 80s, it wasn't unusual to find diesel prices a third lower than gasoline prices. Unsurprisingly, ordinary drivers, faced with such a price differential at the pump, flocked to buying cars with diesel engines! I suspect the gap has narrowed since then because of the changing impact of supply & demand.

For what it's worth, right now at my local Jet (Conono) station, petrol (95 RON unleaded), at £1.19/litre is way cheaper than diesel at £1.31/litre! I'm assuming this is something of a one-off due to the falling price of Brent & the start of the heating oil season.

 

[SonofJoe]

Just saw this. It does look like gasoline has dropped a lot while I've been away on holiday...

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-n...vember-sees-largest-petrol-price-drop-in

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

So have euro manufacturers kept diesel engines in their development pipeline or is it too soon to tell?

 

[Rand]

For comparison we just got our weekly price jump.

went from 1.92/gal to 2.15 for crappy 87

93 aki is around 60c more per gallon here.

Diesel doesnt change much its still stuck up around 3.15/gal

Good thing 91 is only recommended for my jeep, I am not paying 30% more for gas. Runs perfectly well on 87 just pulls abit of timing mainly.

 

[SonofJoe]

You can still buy diesel engined cars here but the demand for them has sort of dropped off a cliff. It's hitting OEMs like Jaguar Land Rover particularly badly. Already we're seeing aggregate CO2 emissions for new cars rising (after falling consecutively year-on-year for ages!) as people swap over from diesel to less efficient gasoline engines.

The demand for diesel fuel will continue as the existing vehicle parc is still huge but it ten years time, it will probably be in serious decline.

I don't know for sure but I'd say further development of diesel powered passenger cars is as dead as a dodo. Today, just about everything seems to be about electric vehicles. This worries me because here in The UK we have almost no spare electricity generation capacity. We already need contingency plans in place to 'keep the lights on' should we ever have a severe winter; it's that tight! What's worse is the plans for new capacity depend on the French or the Chinese stumping up the cash to build new power stations. Unsurprisingly, these plans aren't really 'plans' in the conventionsl meaning of the word because we, in our infinite dumbness, decided to plunge our country into the infinite uncertainty of Brexit!!

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe
You can still buy diesel engined cars here but the demand for them has sort of dropped off a cliff. It's hitting OEMs like Jaguar Land Rover particularly badly. Already we're seeing aggregate CO2 emissions for new cars rising (after falling consecutively year-on-year for ages!) as people swap over from diesel to less efficient gasoline engines.

The demand for diesel fuel will continue as the existing vehicle parc is still huge but it ten years time, it will probably be in serious decline.

I don't know for sure but I'd say further development of diesel powered passenger cars is as dead as a dodo. Today, just about everything seems to be about electric vehicles. This worries me because here in The UK we have almost no spare electricity generation capacity. We already need contingency plans in place to 'keep the lights on' should we ever have a severe winter; it's that tight! What's worse is the plans for new capacity depend on the French or the Chinese stumping up the cash to build new power stations. Unsurprisingly, these plans aren't really 'plans' in the conventionsl meaning of the word because we, in our infinite dumbness, decided to plunge our country into the infinite uncertainty of Brexit!!


I honestly didn't think the demand for electric vehicles would be as high in Europe as it is in N. America.
In Europe, I thought diesel was still king.

 

[tmorris1]

Aren't they more upset over the reason for the increase (offsetting CO2 output) than the cost?

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted by tmorris1
Aren't they more upset over the reason for the increase (offsetting CO2 output) than the cost?


I think it's a combination of reasons...

It's very clear that here, people are genuinely concerned about diesel NOx emissions in big cities. The VW Dieselgate thing shocked a lot of people. If real-life emissions were maybe twice or three time as high as they were supposed to be, people would have shrugged it off but 10 - 20 times higher? That's hard to ignore, as was the fact that some OEMs were deliberately turning off all NOx control after 20 minutes (which just happened to be the duration of the homologation test). And it wasn't just VW was it? Every OEM got tarred with the same brush.

All of the above created a climate of fear & uncertainty around diesel vehicles, particularly how they might be taxed in future.

Whatever the reason, people are shunning diesel engines big time...

 

[SonofJoe]

This just popped up. VW say they will launch their last ever range of internal combustion engines in 2026 (so a mere seven years away!).

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volks...generation-of-combustion-engines-in-2026

I guess that answers the previous question on the status of diesel engine development.

 

[KGMtech]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe

Aren't they more upset over the reason for the increase (offsetting CO2 output) than the cost?


The VW Dieselgate thing shocked a lot of people. If real-life emissions were maybe twice or three time as high as they were supposed to be, people would have shrugged it off but 10 - 20 times higher? That's hard to ignore,/quote]

I can't accept that people would have shrugged off the VW lie if it was 2x or 3x as much as required - they lied. If you murder by stabbing someone 3x versus 20x, you still go to jail. Unless nobody catches you?

Electric cars will takeover, and the existing infrastructure to support all that charging will need to be built up fast!

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted by KGMtech
Originally Posted by SonofJoe

Aren't they more upset over the reason for the increase (offsetting CO2 output) than the cost?


The VW Dieselgate thing shocked a lot of people. If real-life emissions were maybe twice or three time as high as they were supposed to be, people would have shrugged it off but 10 - 20 times higher? That's hard to ignore,/quote]

I can't accept that people would have shrugged off the VW lie if it was 2x or 3x as much as required - they lied. If you murder by stabbing someone 3x versus 20x, you still go to jail. Unless nobody catches you?

Electric cars will takeover, and the existing infrastructure to support all that charging will need to be built up fast!



I disagree.

As a rule, Europe doesn't like the overly prescriptive, litigious way things are done in North America. Here it DOES depend on how many time you stab some one to death & circumstance is everything.

I recall the case of Tony Martin. He shot dead a burglar who had broken into his house. In the US (don't know about Canada) he would have got off scot free. Here, because of circumstance, he (IMO rightly) got sent down for murder (later reduced to manslaughter on appear). Here's the full story...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

Had VW breeched the legal emisions limits by a factor of 2 to 3, the emphasis would have been on giving VW a chance to 'fix the problem'. The trouble was VW got greedy and created a situation that was beyond fixable.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe


I recall the case of Tony Martin. He shot dead a burglar who had broken into his house. In the US (don't know about Canada) he would have got off scot free. Here, because of circumstance, he (IMO rightly) got sent down for murder (later reduced to manslaughter on appear). Here's the full story...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)


Regarding the US, it would depend on which state he was in, as the laws vary wildly.

In Canada, the circumstances and resultant charges would likely have played out the same as in the UK. In Canada, you need a PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) to own a gun. He did not have a license. In Canada, you can only use deadly force if you are in legitimate fear for your life. The way that scenario played-out, it does not sound like he was in any way in fear of personal injury, but rather theft of belongings, so no, in Canada, he would not have been able to freely fire at the intruders with a shotgun with no risk of recourse.

Now, if it had played out like a case about an hour away from me where the intruder was armed and perceived intent was personal harm, then the homeowner, properly licensed, was justified in using reasonable (and lethal) force to eliminate that threat and all charges were dropped.

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe
You can still buy diesel engined cars here but the demand for them has sort of dropped off a cliff. It's hitting OEMs like Jaguar Land Rover particularly badly. Already we're seeing aggregate CO2 emissions for new cars rising (after falling consecutively year-on-year for ages!) as people swap over from diesel to less efficient gasoline engines.

The demand for diesel fuel will continue as the existing vehicle parc is still huge but it ten years time, it will probably be in serious decline.

I don't know for sure but I'd say further development of diesel powered passenger cars is as dead as a dodo. Today, just about everything seems to be about electric vehicles. This worries me because here in The UK we have almost no spare electricity generation capacity. We already need contingency plans in place to 'keep the lights on' should we ever have a severe winter; it's that tight! What's worse is the plans for new capacity depend on the French or the Chinese stumping up the cash to build new power stations. Unsurprisingly, these plans aren't really 'plans' in the conventionsl meaning of the word because we, in our infinite dumbness, decided to plunge our country into the infinite uncertainty of Brexit!!


Build your own power stations .

 

[Silk]

Not so many diesel cars in NZ these days, but 99% of 4x4 utes are diesel (Hi Lux, Ranger, BT50, Triton, Navara etc), and they are the most popular vehicle on the road. Diesel is much cheaper than petrol, because there is no road tax on it at the pump, that is paid as a seperate Road User Charge. RUC's can vary depending on the size of the vehicle, and how much you pay in advance. Saves having to sell 2 different types of diesel and the resulting confusion, and the horror of having the wrong sort in your vehicle.