is it possible an approved with mb229.3 acea a3/b4 and api sn 10w40 oil not to pass the tests of vw502? i am talking about performance. which wear test is more stringent? what about vw t4 pv 1449 in newest mb229.3?
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mb229.3 a3b4 sn vs vw502
- Thread starter christosar
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502 does not allow any oils with a 10w or higher rating. 0w and 5w only. It may pass the tests but will not be approved.
from when? the last list have some 10w40.
The 502 spec is not a particularly tough to meet, the MB specs are much tougher, as is BMW LL-01. If you are out of warranty there are a host of oils that would likely do great in a VW that are not 502. Mobil 1 HM 10w30 or 10w40 for example.
You can use this Lubrizol tool also which is enlightening.
https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html
You can use this Lubrizol tool also which is enlightening.
https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html
Or in his case (here in EU High milage oils are a rarity...) shell helix hx7 10w40...its a decent HC oil...
let's focus more on specs. i could ask for 5w40, but most are 229.5, or xw30, then the api stops early.
i dont care about high milage.
i dont care about high milage.
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Or in his case (here in EU High milage oils are a rarity...) shell helix hx7 10w40...its a decent HC oil...
Shell markets its HX3 20W-50 as high mileage, i bought a 5L Jug of it the other day at the same time as a 5L jug of Rimula R4X, i plan on blending it 25% to thicken the Rimula a bit
Or in his case (here in EU High milage oils are a rarity...) shell helix hx7 10w40...its a decent HC oil...
Shell markets its HX3 20W-50 as high mileage, i bought a 5L Jug of it the other day at the same time as a 5L jug of Rimula R4X, i plan on blending it 25% to thicken the Rimula a bit
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Originally Posted by LotI
502 does not allow any oils with a 10w or higher rating. 0w and 5w only. It may pass the tests but will not be approved.
This is correct.
MB229.3 and VW502 00 are largely the same in terms of wear requirements. There is one slightly tighter limit on the OM646LA cam wear test for the VW spec, but it's not much. The MB spec limit on the VW T4 is the same as for 502 00. Both specs are tighter on wear than ACEA A3/B4.
502 does not allow any oils with a 10w or higher rating. 0w and 5w only. It may pass the tests but will not be approved.
This is correct.
MB229.3 and VW502 00 are largely the same in terms of wear requirements. There is one slightly tighter limit on the OM646LA cam wear test for the VW spec, but it's not much. The MB spec limit on the VW T4 is the same as for 502 00. Both specs are tighter on wear than ACEA A3/B4.
where do you see these data? in 2018 502 list are some 10w40.
only 229.5 limits are tighter than a3b4 in cam and cylinder wear. also a3b4 is the base and the alternative of bmw ll01. i dont see om646la in 502.
i cant found vw t4 pv 1449 in 2012 229.3. does anyone know?
only 229.5 limits are tighter than a3b4 in cam and cylinder wear. also a3b4 is the base and the alternative of bmw ll01. i dont see om646la in 502.
i cant found vw t4 pv 1449 in 2012 229.3. does anyone know?
om646la, m271 and pv5106 are different wear tests.
Best vw502 oil? thread:
Originally Posted by bobbydavro
Not sure why a MB spec (on MB hardware) is being seen as more important than a VW spec (on VW hardware).
VW 502 requires all ACEA tests plus the VW T4 test. MB229,5 is no more challenging from a hardware point of view.
Sure MB229.5 rather thasn MB229.3 suggests a better NOACK but this should be a bonus factor, the key bit is an oil with VW 502.
The best oil? 5W-40 with A3/B4(2012), Porsche A40 and VW 502. Alternatively a 5W-40 C3 VW 502 / 505 01 if your are confident with the fuel quality
Originally Posted by bobbydavro
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by bobbydavro
VW 502 requires all ACEA tests plus the VW T4 test. MB229,5 is no more challenging from a hardware point of view.
MB 229.5 has to pass all the same tests as required for VW 502.00 spec, plus many other tests. According to lubrizol, the 229.5 spec surpasses VW 502.00 spec when it comes to wear, sludge, and piston deposits. Is this not correct?
According to Lubrizol, MB 229.5 even surpasses the A40 spec in some areas. But then again, I'm not sure how they can make an educated apples-to-apples comparison if the tests are performed on different hardware.
MB229.5 only needs a M271WR test in addition to ACEA and they also follow ATIEL Codes of practice which allows some flexibility. The M271WR is pretty easy to pass. They do have a few additional bench tests and the KO90 stay in grade requirements but these aren't really a challenge.
VW requires all testing on the final commercial oil, The T4 test is a challenge, especially on mid saps technology (min EOT TBN) and also the 250hr RNT test (this is much harder than the MB wear requirements)
The Lubrizol graphs are rather rudimentary and don't really go into the detail needed for formulating oils. VW also require Ref + 1 Std Dev in the VW TDi, MB are ok with equivilant to ref.
does vw 502/505 require acea a3/b4 and RNT(505.01 required) test?
Originally Posted by bobbydavro
Not sure why a MB spec (on MB hardware) is being seen as more important than a VW spec (on VW hardware).
VW 502 requires all ACEA tests plus the VW T4 test. MB229,5 is no more challenging from a hardware point of view.
Sure MB229.5 rather thasn MB229.3 suggests a better NOACK but this should be a bonus factor, the key bit is an oil with VW 502.
The best oil? 5W-40 with A3/B4(2012), Porsche A40 and VW 502. Alternatively a 5W-40 C3 VW 502 / 505 01 if your are confident with the fuel quality
Originally Posted by bobbydavro
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by bobbydavro
VW 502 requires all ACEA tests plus the VW T4 test. MB229,5 is no more challenging from a hardware point of view.
MB 229.5 has to pass all the same tests as required for VW 502.00 spec, plus many other tests. According to lubrizol, the 229.5 spec surpasses VW 502.00 spec when it comes to wear, sludge, and piston deposits. Is this not correct?
According to Lubrizol, MB 229.5 even surpasses the A40 spec in some areas. But then again, I'm not sure how they can make an educated apples-to-apples comparison if the tests are performed on different hardware.
MB229.5 only needs a M271WR test in addition to ACEA and they also follow ATIEL Codes of practice which allows some flexibility. The M271WR is pretty easy to pass. They do have a few additional bench tests and the KO90 stay in grade requirements but these aren't really a challenge.
VW requires all testing on the final commercial oil, The T4 test is a challenge, especially on mid saps technology (min EOT TBN) and also the 250hr RNT test (this is much harder than the MB wear requirements)
The Lubrizol graphs are rather rudimentary and don't really go into the detail needed for formulating oils. VW also require Ref + 1 Std Dev in the VW TDi, MB are ok with equivilant to ref.
does vw 502/505 require acea a3/b4 and RNT(505.01 required) test?
Originally Posted by Ether
Originally Posted by LotI
502 does not allow any oils with a 10w or higher rating. 0w and 5w only. It may pass the tests but will not be approved.
Motul 6100 Synergie + 10w40 is OEM VW 502 Approved
...... So is Shell Helix H7 10W40 in 229.3 and 50200.
Originally Posted by LotI
502 does not allow any oils with a 10w or higher rating. 0w and 5w only. It may pass the tests but will not be approved.
Motul 6100 Synergie + 10w40 is OEM VW 502 Approved
...... So is Shell Helix H7 10W40 in 229.3 and 50200.
Originally Posted by christosar
where do you see these data? in 2018 502 list are some 10w40.
VW 50200: 2014-12 section 5.1 outlines the viscosity requirements. 0W-X, 5W-X, XW-30 and XW-40 only.
Originally Posted by christosar
only 229.5 limits are tighter than a3b4 in cam and cylinder wear.
So is 229.3 and VW 502 00.
Originally Posted by christosar
i dont see om646la in 502.
It's in section 6.1 of the 2014 version.
Originally Posted by christosar
i cant found vw t4 pv 1449 in 2012 229.3. does anyone know?
Yes, I know - it's in the Mercedes-Benz specifications for service fill engine oils V2017.1 document.
where do you see these data? in 2018 502 list are some 10w40.
VW 50200: 2014-12 section 5.1 outlines the viscosity requirements. 0W-X, 5W-X, XW-30 and XW-40 only.
Originally Posted by christosar
only 229.5 limits are tighter than a3b4 in cam and cylinder wear.
So is 229.3 and VW 502 00.
Originally Posted by christosar
i dont see om646la in 502.
It's in section 6.1 of the 2014 version.
Originally Posted by christosar
i cant found vw t4 pv 1449 in 2012 229.3. does anyone know?
Yes, I know - it's in the Mercedes-Benz specifications for service fill engine oils V2017.1 document.
Originally Posted by weasley
Originally Posted by christosar
where do you see these data? in 2018 502 list are some 10w40.
VW 50200: 2014-12 section 5.1 outlines the viscosity requirements. 0W-X, 5W-X, XW-30 and XW-40 only.
what is the point of XW-40 when 0W-40 and 5W-40 included in 0W-X and 5W-X? i understand 0W-30 0W-40,5W-30 5W-40,10W-30 and 10W-40(and maybe more).
I think it isnt clear.
Originally Posted by weasley
Originally Posted by christosar
i cant found vw t4 pv 1449 in 2012 229.3. does anyone know?
Yes, I know - it's in the Mercedes-Benz specifications for service fill engine oils V2017.1 document.
does mb229.3 require pv1449?
where can i find these documents? i only have afton handbook
Originally Posted by christosar
where do you see these data? in 2018 502 list are some 10w40.
VW 50200: 2014-12 section 5.1 outlines the viscosity requirements. 0W-X, 5W-X, XW-30 and XW-40 only.
what is the point of XW-40 when 0W-40 and 5W-40 included in 0W-X and 5W-X? i understand 0W-30 0W-40,5W-30 5W-40,10W-30 and 10W-40(and maybe more).
I think it isnt clear.
Originally Posted by weasley
Originally Posted by christosar
i cant found vw t4 pv 1449 in 2012 229.3. does anyone know?
Yes, I know - it's in the Mercedes-Benz specifications for service fill engine oils V2017.1 document.
does mb229.3 require pv1449?
where can i find these documents? i only have afton handbook
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Maybe the brilliant minds of vw wroten 0W-X, 5W-X, XW-30 and XW-40 instead of 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40 for the economy of time.
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the europe's vw502/505 list includes 10W-40 oils, the usa's dsn't!
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Originally Posted by christosar
what is the point of XW-40 when 0W-40 and 5W-40 included in 0W-X and 5W-X? i understand 0W-30 0W-40,5W-30 5W-40,10W-30 and 10W-40(and maybe more).
Because they specify cold temperature parameters for the 0W-XX and 5W-XX requirements and hot temperature for the XW-30 and XW-40 grades.
Originally Posted by christosar
does mb229.3 require pv1449?
Yes. In this copy of the Afton handbook if you look at page 120 it is there. This handbook is somewhat out of date though so shouldn't be relied on for the latest information.
Originally Posted by christosar
where can i find these documents? i only have afton handbook
You probably can't find them, they are not pulished to the public.
Originally Posted by christosar
the europe's vw502/505 list includes 10W-40 oils, the usa's dsn't!
How old is the Europe list you are looking at?
what is the point of XW-40 when 0W-40 and 5W-40 included in 0W-X and 5W-X? i understand 0W-30 0W-40,5W-30 5W-40,10W-30 and 10W-40(and maybe more).
Because they specify cold temperature parameters for the 0W-XX and 5W-XX requirements and hot temperature for the XW-30 and XW-40 grades.
Originally Posted by christosar
does mb229.3 require pv1449?
Yes. In this copy of the Afton handbook if you look at page 120 it is there. This handbook is somewhat out of date though so shouldn't be relied on for the latest information.
Originally Posted by christosar
where can i find these documents? i only have afton handbook
You probably can't find them, they are not pulished to the public.
Originally Posted by christosar
the europe's vw502/505 list includes 10W-40 oils, the usa's dsn't!
How old is the Europe list you are looking at?
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