Battery ??-Thinking Outside the Box

[doitmyself]

I'm monitoring my 5+ year old battery health and planning for replacement. My small 4cyl. econobox without any extra electronics has operated just fine the past 5 winters with the OEM 525 CCA battery. Conventional wisdom up north is that more CCA's equals better. Some claim that for a particular group size (86 for me) that a lower CCA will have fewer, thicker plates (longer lived?) vs. a higher CCA. I also wonder if my alternator will keep the lower CCA battery closer to fully charged??

So, what say you? My options in JC is 525 or 640 CCA (31lbs. ea.) and in DEKA: 540 or 690CCA (35lbs.ea.). Would the 540 CCA DEKA give me just a tiny bit more CCA over OEM maybe last better (vs. 640/690CCA) because of my hypothesis' above (thick plates, better charging?).?

With the lower CCA comes shorter warranty. Thanks for any facts or opinions. Alternator is 115 amps.

 

[StevieC]

The CCA is the maximum the battery will put out when it's new, as it ages this number decreases. So you need to look at what the OEM had in there originally and match that or go for better but keep in mind the cost for the extra CCA and whether that is worth it in terms of how long you will get before the battery can no longer put out what is required to effectively start the vehicle in the cold.

Look at the cost per CCA and then look at the difference in cost per CCA from the minimum required to the maximum you can find and then determin if the added cost is worth it over the average life span of the battery which is about 5 years depending on the conditions the battery will experience. (Lead Acid)

Doing a stress test every fall before the winter is the best way to make sure your battery is up to snuff and not going to put undo stress on your electrical system before it completely fails.

 

[Warstud]

Just carry some jumper cables with you and sleep well. When you have to get a jump....it's time to buy a new battery. It's that simple.

 

[doitmyself]

Thanks for the quick replies. In the end, I can afford either choice and don't wish to overthink this (oops, already doing it). Most people/forums automatically think bigger is better all the time and I am attempting to overthrow this, LOL.

I guess that I am just curious and can someone educate me - especially # 2 and #3.

1. Can a lower CCA choice actually be better under my circumstances?
2. Are my lower CCA hypothesis real? Thicker plates/ more effective alternator charging = better battery health?
3. @ Warstud - already carry jumper cables. Is running a "wearing out battery" hard and maybe detrimental to alternator life?

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Warstud
Just carry some jumper cables with you and sleep well. When you have to get a jump....it's time to buy a new battery. It's that simple.
My car went from starting fine to not having enough juice to lock the doors after a 20 min drive within 48 hours!

When your car needs a boost, it is time to drive it directly to the store and purchase a new battery!

Originally Posted by doitmyself
Is running a "wearing out battery" hard and maybe detrimental to alternator life?
Maybe in the days of two wire alternators. If you have to boost your car every time you start it and pay day is two weeks from now then I could see some damage occurring. A week of slow cranks before it finally completely fails? Probably not, I know that alternators on modern cars have sophisticated ECM controls. I assume they can sense a weak battery and accommodate it, while throwing a code of battery light.

 

[oldhp]

I always buy a battery based on best reserve capacity within the CCA range I need.

 

[gathermewool]

I have a little "battery replacement" spreadsheet that I made for my Legacy, with three different group sizes that will fit (24, 25, 34):

Not all sites list weight, but those who do show that a heavier battery coincides with higher CCA and RC.

Like your thicker vs thinner plate theory (which I believe is true), there are also those who say that the heavier the battery the better (comparing batteries of the same maker, e.g, Deka, that is).

Heaviest NAPA: Group 34 The Legend AGM (41#; RC 120 min)

Heaviest Autozone: Group 24 Duralast Gold (42.39#; RC 130 min)

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
I'm monitoring my 5+ year old battery health and planning for replacement. My small 4cyl. econobox without any extra electronics has operated just fine the past 5 winters with the OEM 525 CCA battery. Conventional wisdom up north is that more CCA's equals better. Some claim that for a particular group size (86 for me) that a lower CCA will have fewer, thicker plates (longer lived?) vs. a higher CCA. I also wonder if my alternator will keep the lower CCA battery closer to fully charged??

So, what say you? My options in JC is 525 or 640 CCA (31lbs. ea.) and in DEKA: 540 or 690CCA (35lbs.ea.). Would the 540 CCA DEKA give me just a tiny bit more CCA over OEM maybe last better (vs. 640/690CCA) because of my hypothesis' above (thick plates, better charging?).?

With the lower CCA comes shorter warranty. Thanks for any facts or opinions. Alternator is 115 amps.


More CCA in same footprint is not good, thinner weaker plates. Will a larger battery fit? Sometimes you cannot get the same CCA as original so you have to go up. An Interstate dealer can probably get you the exact CCA battery in a few days wait.

Check battery code, find the newest one. Charge battery before use if you have a smart charger thats not a Schumacher.

Charging a dead battery with alternator will strain the alternator. Alternator was not made for that. Will it kill the alternator? Probably not, but I would not make it a habit.

I would get a carbon pile load tester and test the battery with that and replace when it fails the test. You dial in 1/2 CCA and go for 15 seconds and read voltage. Temp compensated. Battery should be fully charged for accurate results. Not too expensive at Harbor Freight.

 

[StevieC]

Thinner plates aren't necessarily weaker. Look at the Oddesey batteries. They use thinner plates and can last 10 years or more.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
My options in JC and DEKA


Oh goodness.... get the Deka.

I wouldn't buy another Johnson Controls battery.

 

[eljefino]

Get the Deka because it's made betterer not because of ratings which are just numbers on a piece of paper.

 

[Cujet]

Batteries do not really have a perfectly predictable lifespan. Unless very high quality is demanded and purchased, there will be wide variations in battery life, even in the same vehicle.

Older diesel trucks with dual batteries, both located in the engine compartment, and wired in parallel, often have one fail well before the other. Not unlike aircraft with dual batteries. Where there will be wild differences in the capacity checks after 2 years.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Batteries do not really have a perfectly predictable lifespan. Unless very high quality is demanded and purchased, there will be wide variations in battery life, even in the same vehicle.

Older diesel trucks with dual batteries, both located in the engine compartment, and wired in parallel, often have one fail well before the other. Not unlike aircraft with dual batteries. Where there will be wild differences in the capacity checks after 2 years.


Parallel cells will fail for different reasons; they both contribute, but one will do much more work based upon impedance of the battery itself, and its connections.

OP, Id go with the 540 Deka personally.

Weight is the best determinant of plate thickness. A lower impedance battery with thinner plates may still indicate a higher RC because the voltage drop at a given draw will be lower, so it will naturally run longer.

So you really need to look at all parameters to try to optimize the most between all of them... Not always easy...

 

[bbhero]

^^^^^^^^

Very good post here by JHZR2.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by Warstud
Just carry some jumper cables with you and sleep well. When you have to get a jump....it's time to buy a new battery. It's that simple.


Or just get a good jump box. I haven't used cables this century and can't remember where they are if I need them. Chances are your car won't start at 2am or in the middle of nowhere so cables won't help you much anyway.

 

[CR94]

There is some validity to your theory, other things being equal---which they often aren't. Batteries designed for deep cycling tend to have thicker, more durable plates than those designed to maximize CCA. When high CCA isn't critical, reserve capacity is a better yardstick to measure value.

 

[doitmyself]

Thank you everyone for your input. I'm leaning (very confidently) towards the DEKA 540 CCA battery. But, it is unnerving when Cosco offers the bigger (CCA) version cheaper, LOL. I've been blessed with excellent battery life over many years. One factor might be that our vehicles are always base models with few, if any refinements like heated seats. My last Caravan OEM battery lasted 9 years! My current battery is the smallest OEM one I've ever had, so I am a little more leery of it's staying power.

 

[nthach]

I take it this is a Mitsubishi or DSM-made Chrysler that takes a group 86?

My inclination was get the biggest battery that can comfortably fit, the reason why Costco(and WM) is cheaper for the group 25 that will physically fit and has more CCA is that JCI batteries for mass-market lines have thinner plates I think. That allows them to pack in more Pb(the chemical symbol for lead) as paste over the grid plates as well as more acid. Faster chemical reactions, but hit or miss battery life.

I've had hit or miss with JCI batteries. The longest one that lasted was 5-6 years in my parent's van, it was an older Kirkland-branded JCI with the old 7 year/3 year free replacement warranty. My parents had to get a jump from AAA and advised a battery replacement.The least was 3 years, and I prematurely replaced a Costco Interstate on a friend's Subaru when it fact there was an TSB issued for slow cranking that involved flashing a new calibration and installing new cam sensors. Lazy flat-rate techs.

 

[DONWATERS]

As the vehicle ages the resistance goes up in all the circuits from age, corrosion at the connections, alternator puts out less. I put the biggest in.