Recent Topics
NEW AMAZON HD 10 FIRE TABLET BLACK FRIDAY SALE
by bmwjohn
11/21/17 12:57 AM
First oil change on '16 Camry.
by andyd
11/20/17 11:42 PM
It's that time of year...
by gregk24
11/20/17 10:04 PM
Cut open: Mobil 1 M212-A used 14,237 miles
by gonefishing
11/20/17 09:59 PM
greasing leaf springs to prevent rust?
by motor_oil_madman
11/20/17 09:17 PM
Red Line 15W50, 6k mi OCI, 75k mi, Cadillac CTS-V
by Emperors6
11/20/17 09:06 PM
Discount Tire Direct started Thanksgiving sales.
by dan_erickson
11/20/17 09:00 PM
Cleaning my 50's drill press
by JHZR2
11/20/17 08:46 PM
2011 Fusion 2.5, 17.1k mi UOA, PUP 0W20, Napa Plat
by SubieRubyRoo
11/20/17 08:30 PM
ATF-HP, can not fnd local
by Davej98092
11/20/17 08:29 PM
Control arm bushing washers
by PhuongFU
11/20/17 08:27 PM
Wrong oil in engine
by WmJ
11/20/17 08:18 PM
Anyone using RLI Bio Syn oil?
by Pajero
11/20/17 07:49 PM
Delo and Klondike CK-4 15W40 VOA
by PiperOne
11/20/17 07:19 PM
Digital Torque wrenches
by Ndx
11/20/17 07:07 PM
400,000 miles of Duramax Oil samples
by PiperOne
11/20/17 07:00 PM
Replacing my tires on my one day old new car
by Finklejag
11/20/17 06:54 PM
Motul X-clean 5w/30 FE - 2017 STI - 3,900 miles
by Tiir
11/20/17 06:27 PM
Search Engines duckduckgo.com
by Al
11/20/17 06:19 PM
Bob Lutz, "Tesla is ‘Going Out of Business"
by wemay
11/20/17 05:39 PM
Newest Members
WmJ, MJ90, Davej98092, pabloabarth, shore48
63462 Registered Users
Who's Online
26 registered (bbhero, Atesz792, 1998CamryCE, andyd, Black_Thunder, 1 invisible), 945 Guests and 13 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
63462 Members
66 Forums
274101 Topics
4555710 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#492935 - 08/08/04 05:08 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
T-Keith Offline


Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 4870
Loc: MN
This test only backs up other tests and UOA observations. I'm convinced enought to stop using cotton oiled filters in all but race applications.

-T

Top
#492936 - 08/08/04 06:52 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
Mike_dup1 Offline


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 3013
Loc: USA-Michigan
Not me.

My friend has my 1996 Silverado and it has over 125,000 miles. When it was new I installed a K&N filter, its still in there today. Truck is sitting about 500 ft from me at this moment. His engine never used oil the 3 yrs I had it and not since he has had it. I put in Amsoil Series 2000 at 1000 miles, changed oil once a year and he does the same. I never ran an UOA.

So I think all this filter testing by self proclaimed experts to be nothing but product bashing. Everyone distrusts everyone, naturally every manf. can't be trusted and lies about there products and these guys are the only ones that can see thru the maze.

I got one of those foam filters in my 2002 Firebird, my 2004 GMC, my 1993 Lumina, my 2001 Honda Rancher. Won't change my mind.

Top
#492937 - 08/08/04 07:32 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
T-Keith Offline


Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 4870
Loc: MN
quote:
Originally posted by Mike:
Not me.

My friend has my 1996 Silverado and it has over 125,000 miles. When it was new I installed a K&N filter, its still in there today. Truck is sitting about 500 ft from me at this moment. His engine never used oil the 3 yrs I had it and not since he has had it. I put in Amsoil Series 2000 at 1000 miles, changed oil once a year and he does the same. I never ran an UOA.

So I think all this filter testing by self proclaimed experts to be nothing but product bashing. Everyone distrusts everyone, naturally every manf. can't be trusted and lies about there products and these guys are the only ones that can see thru the maze.

I got one of those foam filters in my 2002 Firebird, my 2004 GMC, my 1993 Lumina, my 2001 Honda Rancher. Won't change my mind.

I know of cars that used cheap oil at 10k+ OCI and lasted over 125,000 miles. What does that prove? One case, does not make good proof. People on this board are looking for what's best, not what might get them by. This board is also based on actual testing and proof. Anyone that provides this shouldn't be flamed. If anyone is showing bias it's the K&N users.

I've had K&Ns on several cars for years. My Wife's came off a couple weeks ago, and I don't plan on buying anymore.

-T

Top
#492938 - 08/09/04 09:19 AM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
edwardh1 Offline


Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 2708
Loc: Coastal South Carolina
air filters and oil filters should FILTER.

if you want unrestricted air flow why not just remove it for most street driving

Top
#492939 - 08/09/04 09:32 AM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
XS650 Offline


Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by T-Keith:
I know of cars that used cheap oil at 10k+ OCI and lasted over 125,000 miles. What does that prove? One case, does not make good proof. People on this board are looking for what's best, not what might get them by. This board is also based on actual testing and proof. Anyone that provides this shouldn't be flamed. If anyone is showing bias it's the K&N users.

I've had K&Ns on several cars for years. My Wife's came off a couple weeks ago, and I don't plan on buying anymore.

-T

T-Keith, it proves that an engine with a K&N can last 125,000 miles. If that's acceptable engine life when driven under the conditions that one engine was driven, then the testimonial is meaningful and a K&N is rrrright for you [LOL!]


I have K&N on one motorcycle. I don't expect to put enough miles on it to make a difference. Everything else I have gets high quality OEM or better paper type filters.

Top
#492940 - 08/09/04 02:23 AM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
TR3-2001SE Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1759
Loc: Elizabeth City NC
This test is great and supports what we already know from other test. One thing we should keep in mine is every application is slightly different. Just because AC Delco did well in this test does not mean that the AC delco for a German or Japannese car would be the best. It would be nice if there was consistancy by manufacture but I have discovered there is definitly not. Still for a GM vechicle I would use the AC Delco. Baldwin is definitely a good filter also as is the Wix/Napa. Great test!

Top
#492941 - 08/09/04 03:39 AM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
RedWolf4000 Offline


Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 243
Loc: NY
What it means is the car has 125k on it. He never said the car died due to air filtration. The car is probablly perfect.

The K&N type filter was designed years ago for dirt bikes, and it stops so much dirt on those tracks. Friends of mine pull off the filters and they are caked with dirt, and the clean side is spotless.

I just checked my gf's K&N today, its got 15k on it, her intake ducting on the filtered side is SPOTLESS, end of story. The filter has filtered more then i have ever seen on a paper in 15k. Im not saying it filters the same, but it definately isnt like "running your car with no filter at all"

When people begin to say things like that it means they are beginning to become very paranoid.

FACT: You will never have an engine failure due to K&N or Paper differences, Nor will you shorten your engine life. Know how many people run a ripped seal filter for 35k and have there car until 300k miles before they sell it? ALOT. Know how many people run there car many many miles with a filter pinched?? ALOT OF PEOPLE. Your saying that a K&N may filter 3% less efficient? Perhaps, but your a fool to change your filter out. The K&N lasts a long time, if yours came apart in 4 years, oh well buy a new one, bad luck. A paper wouldnt have come apart in 4 years?? Please. Fact is, to think a K&N, Air Hog, or other cotton guaze filters is damaging your car is insanity. It filters perfectly fine, and its much better quality, i would not be afraid to service it every 50k. Oil gets dirty, thats why you change it, a K&N and paper filter makes such a marginal difference in filtration quality, its hardly worth measuring, so when a statement is made like "running a K&N is like running your car with no air filter" is obsessing over nothing.

Top
#492942 - 08/09/04 05:17 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
T-Keith Offline


Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 4870
Loc: MN
Reread my previous post. I never made any such claims.

Mike claimed that because his friend has a car with 125k on it the test was invalid. The point of the test was simply to test how well the filters worked, the K&N did worst, FACT.

-T

Top
#492943 - 08/09/04 05:36 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
Mike_dup1 Offline


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 3013
Loc: USA-Michigan
quote:
This board is also based on actual testing and proof. Anyone that provides this shouldn't be flamed. If anyone is showing bias it's the K&N users.

So if I understand you we cannot question these tests and should fall in line and agree?

I am not flamming anyone (intentionally) and if anyone feels that way I suggest they are not looking at this objectively. I am offering my opinion just like you are. If I read it correctly the test was run 1 time on new filters. A filter is only new for a short period of time. It was not too long many were stating that a filter will get better as it works till it reaches a point where it starts to be restrictive. Whats more important (IMO) is what does it do over the service life of the filter. An air filter has to be a compromise between good flow and good filtration. Anyone who promotes one over the other it not looking objectively.

fyi - I am not a K&N user, that was one of the few I ever purchased and it was an impulse purchase when I was in a local parts store that had them in stock at discount prices. I doubt I would ever buy another, I prefer the foam type from Amsoil.

And the 1996 truck is still running like new and looking new. Ray has no intentions of buying anything else in the foreseeable future, although he did consider my 2001 GMC but passed due to his being all set up for his business with the snow plow and emergency road service equipment. I asked him yesterday, he said he cleans the filter once a year usually in the spring using a K&N service kit. I looked at the filter, its still in good shape. If these filters were a bad as been touted (like a screen door on a submarine), this truck should be on its last legs which it is far from. btw--His last truck was a 1989 (?exact yr) Chevy and was worn out at 100,000 miles using QS products (which he sells and installs in his business).

[ August 10, 2004, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

Top
#492944 - 08/09/04 07:34 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
T-Keith Offline


Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 4870
Loc: MN
Actually if you look at the test, they ran the filters until they reached a certain restriction. So yes it does demonstrate filtration over the life of the filter. Cleaning is nice, but you have to reclean a K&N several times before it reaches the price of a just buying new paper filters. The K&N for my car was $45, plus a cleaning kit for $15. A new paper filter is $5. Objectively the test seems fine to me. The only the K&N had was a flow advantage when new.

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your post, but you seemed to be dismissing the whole test because of an unrelated event, not based on the any actual fault of the test.

-T

Top
#492945 - 08/10/04 09:15 AM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
RedWolf4000 Offline


Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 243
Loc: NY
I did misread your post T-Keith, did not mean to offend you either.

Because alot of vehicle UOA with K&N filters showed qual results to paper, and some showed only marginal differences, i still feel that a cotton guaze is a better choice based on the sturdy construction of the filter. (I know that you have had one fall apart) but paper ones have also fell apart.

Top
#492946 - 08/09/04 10:15 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
steiner43511 Offline


Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 97
Loc: OH
i dont mean to offend anyone with this, but i think too many people on here are paranoid about k&n's.

when my engine dies, it will be because i broke the crank from beating on it too much or i will blow a head because it got too hot. it wont die on me because i ran a k&n and let a minute amount of dirt through.

a paper filter costs 25 to 30 dollars depending where you go for my truck. the k&n only cost 50. it doesn't take too many miles to make the k&n look like a bargain. and the k&n for my truck has a better seal on the intake tube. it uses a hose clamp to make a very tight seal. the paper filters just slide on.

and whoever says that k&n's give no performance gains, they are wrong. i put the paper filter that i had in my truck before the k&n was installed and i took note of how much boost i could get. then i put the k&n in, which had 8,000 miles on it and has never been cleaned, and i could consistently get an extra pound of boost. that is a lot when your talking about a truck that makes only 10 pounds of boost.

this is not directed towards anybody in particular, i am just stating my opinion.

Top
#492947 - 08/11/04 09:50 AM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 21970
Loc: Colorado Springs
Any dirt that gets through the filter will accelerate engine wear, even fine dust. It sticks to the cylinder walls which are lightly coated with oil, and I'd assume it may accelerate wear to the valve seats/stems/guides over time. It doesn't simply just go right through the engine and out the exhaust. That's one reason why bore wash was much more of a problem from yester-years as filter boxes and filters themselves did not seal up as well as todays modern plastics/polyurethane moldings. That's my take. Although I too have used and seen too many of my friends use very old/crappy K&N style filters on engines that were taken to redline at least 10 times on a daily basis, and never a problem with oil consumption or compression. [I dont know] Perhaps we should all find something else to obsses over. [LOL!]

Top
#492948 - 09/22/04 06:27 AM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
Bill Plock Offline


Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 335
Loc: Owego, NY
A few weeks ago Arlen (SPICER) sent me copies of the original ISO 5011 Filter Test reports received from Ken at Testand. The data from these reports has been complied and formatted into the following html file. The report includes Bar Graphs, Plots and Data Tables

ISO 5011 Duramax Air Filter Test Report

(takes a few minutes to completely load with a dialup connection)

[Smile]

Top
#492949 - 09/22/04 05:04 PM Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters
T-Keith Offline


Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 4870
Loc: MN
Great Job! The graphs really make it easier to read.

The Accumulative Capacity test really opened up my eyes, and the Dirt Passed Versus Total Test Time really clears up some misconceptions about oiled cotton filters.

-T

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >