CarGurus

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zee09

$200 Site Donor 2023
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
15,833
Location
WPB Florida-Maryland-Pennsylvania
I noticed looking at this site that very few dealers will entertain the "good" or "great" prices listed by CG.
I did talk to one dealer and the first sentence was... The price is the price. No negotiation on that.
It was $4K higher than the "great" price. Once in awhile you will find a deal and you better grab it.

I survey many dealer discount websites. I suspect on bigger trucks it maybe that the 179 tax code is possibly ending.
 
I think some dealers are trying a different tactic. More of a Dutch auction principle. The price is the price and if it doesn't sell after an amount of time, they lower the price. They negotiate less but you have to wait them out to get the great price and be quick.
 
KBB and NADA were bought out by Autotrader and CarMax I believe, and immediately pricing for used cars went up 20%. What usually works for me is having your cash offer on hand, I saved 5k off the M5 since it needed work and I brought the money with me to help make the sale.
 
The era of "cash in hand" pushing dealers to make deals is over. That may work on a 15 year old car which is nearly unfinanceable anyways, but on cars less than 8 years old with under 100k miles, being willing to finance through the dealer will push them to make deals that they might not otherwise do. It wasn't uncommon for our dealership to agree to a price, contingent upon them financing through one of our preferred lendors. Anymore, dealerships make more money on financed deals than cash deals.

Car buying is slow changing. The fact is that a lot of the negotiating is already done for you- the internet will give you the lowest price in your zip code that can be found and at the push of a button. It was common practice for us to post our new cars at invoice price (we could not go below without being reported by other dealerships- they monitor our pricing and vice versa). You might be able to get a few hundred/thousand more off, but the dealership is eating that loss in hopes to make it up elsewhere (taking a trade in below ACV [actual cash value], a profitable sale of a used car, new car sale incentives from the manufacture, etc). All the old rules may still apply, such as shopping at the end of the month, at the end of the day, shopping previous MY cars, etc, but those strategies aren't as fool-proof as before and there's less money to be saved by doing so.

The best thing you can do is to come into a dealership with a folder of research on a specific car. Find the car you want, in the color you want, print listings of that car in your area at specific prices and E-MAIL other dealers asking if the price listed on the internet is an out-the-door price. Of course they will tell you yes in hopes to get you in, and now you have that in writing. Go to the dealer of your choice and once you find the car you want, use that in your negotiations. Also find listings on the internet of cars similar to your trade-in to help set a value for your trade. They will build up their car and tear down your car to build value into the deal, so you do the same. Finding a few very small hail dents on my new car helped save me nearly $1000. They offered to fix it, but I couldn't care less about the dents so I preferred the savings. Use things like this to your advantage.

Maybe some day, we will see the end of the dealership model. I think we are still very far from that day, however.
 
I usually start the conversation with. I've done my research and I'm prepared to buy this vehicle today and here is what I'm willing to pay no games. Do we have a deal?
Then be prepared to physically get up and walk out if it feels like they are giving you the gears.

Has always worked for me and I have always paid far less than sticker price and usually in the "great" range for pricing.

Sales is all about reading the other person and what you can get away with and not leaving money on the table. I know within a few sentences with a customer of mine what I can sell to them at and what is considered the danger zone that puts a deal in jeopardy. Car sales folks are under enormous pressure to make sales so this is the best arena to get what you want because they want as many deals as possible for units sold even if the margins are tad bit thinner than they would like.
grin2.gif


I make my living in sales and have done extremely well both in profitability for the company I work for and commission. The current job I have, they found me and made me an offer I couldn't refuse because of someone I worked with in the past that now works here and spoke highly of me. My point is that I'm well versed in sales which is great for when I have to deal with someone else in sales as the customer.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by JustN89
The era of "cash in hand" pushing dealers to make deals is over. That may work on a 15 year old car which is nearly unfinanceable anyways, but on cars less than 8 years old with under 100k miles, being willing to finance through the dealer will push them to make deals that they might not otherwise do. It wasn't uncommon for our dealership to agree to a price, contingent upon them financing through one of our preferred lendors. Anymore, dealerships make more money on financed deals than cash deals.

Maybe some day, we will see the end of the dealership model. I think we are still very far from that day, however.


Maybe that also depends on the dealer you're shopping and the price point. Last car I bought at a dealership I just brought a bank check and there was no mention of any financing. Same deal when I was shopping, just mentioned that I could get a bank check for it and that was the end of the discussion, financing never came up.

I think there have been other comments where the sales people like cash deals too, less likely that the deal will fall apart due to some last minute financing glitch.

As for the end of those dealership days, it's the same as people saying the real estate agent game is going to end soon. Too much money in it for it to just go away on its own.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Maybe that also depends on the dealer you're shopping and the price point. Last car I bought at a dealership I just brought a bank check and there was no mention of any financing. Same deal when I was shopping, just mentioned that I could get a bank check for it and that was the end of the discussion, financing never came up.

I think there have been other comments where the sales people like cash deals too, less likely that the deal will fall apart due to some last minute financing glitch.

As for the end of those dealership days, it's the same as people saying the real estate agent game is going to end soon. Too much money in it for it to just go away on its own.

That's because you had a bank check- you've already secured the money for the purchase of the vehicle and there's little reason to pitch financing again. If you're clear that you will be securing your own financing, a dealer might bring it up as an option, but their main concentration will be simply selling the car. Either way, neither of those things have any impact on whether or not a dealer might give you a lower price if you're willing to finance through one of their lenders. I've made deals happen before simply because we got them to agree to financing with us.

Do dealers like cash deals? Sure, of course they do. That's less time the sales rep, sales manager, and finance manager are tied up in a deal and it gets a car sold. It would be stupid not to like that. However, that doesn't mean, as I said above, that they aren't incentivized more to get a deal done if the customer is going to finance with them.
 
I am talking new cars and I have purchased over 50 in my day and as others have said the game is changing.
Cash on a new car means they lose out of financing and some money. I have purchased several new cars directly but it was never appreciated.
Nobody wants cash today but me.....

I often have deep discount sales for cash buyers- I never get any $$$$
The "new" generation has no cash and they don't deal in it. The old folks won't let go of it. So we are all screwed.
 
BTW- Ram-Dodge-FCA
I won't go there even if I loved what they sell.
That 30 rebate scam they have going is a bunch of nonsense.
If you are lucky you can get one or two.
GMC has that $3000 scam for lessees- of course it is in the fine print for which I always read first.
Plus I never try to strangle the dealer either. I just want a fair price. They have to make money too even though many think not.

The problem good dealers have that put the rock bottom price down in their ads and it is legit get every buyer thinking that is the negotiating starting point.
Research- many I know hate the 21'st century term. What is worse than that is the too lazy people just make up pricing in their heads-no clue
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by Audios
KBB and NADA were bought out by Autotrader and CarMax I believe, and immediately pricing for used cars went up 20%. What usually works for me is having your cash offer on hand, I saved 5k off the M5 since it needed work and I brought the money with me to help make the sale.

Autotrader and KBB are owned by Cox Automotive. NADA and CarMax are independent of AutoTrader and each other.
Supply and demand dictates used vehicle prices. If the demand is high and supply is low for any specific make/model of used vehicle, unless there is another reason for a dealer wanting to get rid of it (such as high miles, condition, previous damage, color, etc), you will find that it is very difficult (or impossible) to negotiate a lower price on that vehicle. Unlike new vehicles, where they can just order another identical one from the factory, dealers are not anxious to give away a highly desirable used vehicle that they can't easily replace. There is no such thing as a used vehicle factory and EVERY used vehicle is different in some respect.
Because of the Internet, MANY dealers have now become "one price" dealers, and many more dealers are moving to that pricing strategy. Nobody wants to advertise a vehicle for substantially more than their competitors, even if they would be willing to negotiate a lower price, consumers will just ignore an overpriced used vehicle. Now days, advertising higher negotiable prices amounts to "sales suicide" unless they have something else to offer, such as "bad credit" financing. Furthermore, many people HATE playing the negotiation game with dealers. Also, dealers don't want to hire and pay-for professional salespeople that have negotiating skills anymore, all they want to hire is $10/hr sales "clerks".
 
I wonder if all the natural disasters in the past few years is effecting the used car market. Supposedly used cars pricing is going up more than cuvs/suvs and trucks which seems weird since supposedly that segment is dying.
 
This could be a factor. I have noticed a new area near our home where used cars are parked. The area is about 15-20 acres and there are various makes and models stored there. I'm guessing there is a huge glut of used cars currently in the market.
 
Originally Posted by DaRider34
I wonder if all the natural disasters in the past few years is effecting the used car market. Supposedly used cars pricing is going up more than cuvs/suvs and trucks which seems weird since supposedly that segment is dying.

Of course it does!
For one example, Harvey totaled approximately one million vehicles. Not to mention the fact that those vehicles were gone forever from the retail resale trade-in used vehicle market, they all needed to be replaced by their owners (without a trade-in). Also, all of the vehicles sitting on the dealer and auction lots were totaled as well, so there were no immediate replacements available in the area. This created a HUGE nationwide used vehicle supply shortage that lasted MANY months. The reason that the shortage was nationwide is because the wholesalers were shipping them into the area by the thousands because they could make substantially more money on them than they could anywhere else in the country (the used vehicle business is entirely profit driven, like every other business). Used vehicle prices went up noticeably during this period.
Used CAR prices are rising because they are not selling as well as CUVs/SUVs when new, so there is a shortage of them used. Vehicles need to be built and sold new to begin with in order for them to become used vehicles later.
Whenever you are wondering about vehicle prices (or for that matter, the price of any other commodity), just remember the first law of economics, supply and demand dictates price.
 
Originally Posted by Zee09
I noticed looking at this site that very few dealers will entertain the "good" or "great" prices listed by CG.
I did talk to one dealer and the first sentence was... The price is the price. No negotiation on that.
It was $4K higher than the "great" price. Once in awhile you will find a deal and you better grab it.

I survey many dealer discount websites. I suspect on bigger trucks it maybe that the 179 tax code is possibly ending.


Could be, and probably is, that the CarGurus price is a fantasy.
It could also be that they've focused on a price that was obtainable in some region based upon manufacturer's incentives for that region that can't be found elsewhere.
Some buyers are also much tougher at negotiation than are others.
Did someone actually take delivery of a car at the GC price?
Probably, but you'd need the full story to know why and how.
 
Originally Posted by JustN89
The era of "cash in hand" pushing dealers to make deals is over.


This.

Cash is no longer king. Dealerships lose money on cash sales. They make money on financing.
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by Zee09
I noticed looking at this site that very few dealers will entertain the "good" or "great" prices listed by CG.
I did talk to one dealer and the first sentence was... The price is the price. No negotiation on that.
It was $4K higher than the "great" price. Once in awhile you will find a deal and you better grab it.

I survey many dealer discount websites. I suspect on bigger trucks it maybe that the 179 tax code is possibly ending.


Could be, and probably is, that the CarGurus price is a fantasy.
It could also be that they've focused on a price that was obtainable in some region based upon manufacturer's incentives for that region that can't be found elsewhere.
Some buyers are also much tougher at negotiation than are others.
Did someone actually take delivery of a car at the GC price?
Probably, but you'd need the full story to know why and how.


Actually I found the car I bought on Cargurus. One thing that it has is the number of days that the car is listed. I had been searching for months for a car with the options I wanted. First, no black or black interior which seemed to eliminate 40% of the cars I was looking at and then I wanted Xenon lights which was somewhat of a rare option so it took a while to find. That site also keeps track of cars you've looked at so it was easy look at new ones as they appeared. The one I eventually bought was just listed for 3 days so I went down the next day to see it. Bought it the day after. I kept an eye on it afterwards and noticed it was still listed as available for another 2 weeks. The popular ones with the options tend to disappear so it's important to jump on a car fast if you like it. I think I negotiated another $1500 off the price as it was a little higher on average, but it had a lot more options than most, but none of that is reflected in the book value so I guess they were willing to come down to move it. I was actually prepared to pay asking if they didn't budge though as it was the most loaded car I had seen in months, I think it was a custom order, not a stripper model that most dealers tend to order.
 
I just talked to a Nissan dealer in PA and the sales guy said bring your own money.
That's a first on a new car. He didn't even want to talk financing. I think their rates maybe high.
Interesting!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top