Lowest W grade oil

[OilUzer]

I'm a thinie as long as we are on the left of the W

I have a few questions. Thank you!

Q1:
What is the lowest W grade oil on the market?
I'm assuming there is nothing below 0W like -8W or -1W ... at least not in Wal-Mart

Q2:
if there are none, is it due to supply & demand or are there other technological limitations or barriers?

Q3:
iirc 0W is good to -47°F. What do you use in colder places besides using block heaters. What do cars or planes use in very cold places or if you are researching near Poles?

Oymyakon
And there's perhaps nowhere where that's more evident than in the tiny village of Oymyakon, Russia, regarded by most as the coldest permanently inhabited place on earth. Temperatures average around -58 degrees Fahrenheit during the winter months, with the record low reaching -96.16 degrees Fahrenheit in 1924.Dec 23, 2016

 

[Shannow]

Ummm...zero...0W...None more zero.

The planet hasn't got any colder since the straight weights, then the "W" gradings, then the 10W, 5W, and 0W gradings.

And those gradings have changed as they worked out that Pour point meant little to nothing in terms of cold start, while it was the basis of the system for years.

10Ws worked in all those places when 10Ws were as they were...5W did too...now...0W.

Honestly, having watched that trans Siberian documentary years ago, you would be more worried about your vehicle snapping through steel cold embrittlement than not getting going because of the 0w engine oil.

Here's a couple of old J300s...you can clearly see the assumptions of the time, and how they relate to your question.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted by Shannow


Honestly, having watched that trans Siberian documentary years ago, you would be more worried about your vehicle snapping through steel cold embrittlement than not getting going because of the 0w engine oil.


Wish I still had my old Lada handbook. Can't remember what it said about oil, but there were a lot of extreme cold instructions. Think you were supposed to remove the (unusually big) battery overnight (and presumably you and Ninotchka cuddled up to it to keep it warm.)

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

There's negative ow-x. The oil is so light that its injected into the crankcase in gaseous form.

Running the engine compresses the gas into a liquid because it gets hotter. Yes folks, it breaks the laws of physics and condenses when heated. Amazing stuff.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by Shannow
...
10Ws worked in all those places when 10Ws were as they were...5W did too...now...0W.

...




Yes, but many had lots of kerosene added to the sump!

 

[Shannow]

yes rudolphna/wikifresh, (please provide some wiki reference of the percentage please) many did add kero...but per what I offered, the metric has changed massively from a freezing temperature regime to actual -40C measurements of parameters.

The "W' has changed from the days where there wasn't even a "W' rating...the places which you guys have been operating have remained largely geostationary

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by OilUzer

Q3:
iirc 0W is good to -47°F. What do you use in colder places besides using block heaters. What do cars or planes use in very cold places or if you are researching near Poles?


You really don't "get" how this works.

I used to start my 1970 Ford Maverick and 1974 Chevy C10 with straight SAE 30W in the sump when it was well below -30*F in North Dakota, all the time.

I always got normal oil pressure in a relatively normal period of time.

Why, exactly - are you worried about how a 0W oil flows when it is cold?

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
What do cars or planes use in very cold places or if you are researching near Poles?


I can't tell you how many times I have started Continental and Lycoming aircraft piston engines in -30*F (or COLDER) in the winter with straight 50W aircraft oil in the sump.

1000's of times.

No heat, either.

Always got oil pressure in a reasonable amount of time, too.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

One of those rice brands, I think HKS, has some negative-W oil, but it's just a gimmick and not actual real SAE J300 grades

RP makes a 0w8

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Linctex
I can't tell you how many times I have started Continental and Lycoming aircraft piston engines in -30*F (or COLDER) in the winter with straight 50W aircraft oil in the sump.

1000's of times.

No heat, either.

Sure.

 

[PimTac]

Way back when, our family vehicles had SAE 30wt in the crankcase and we started them in -20F in Eastern Oregon. They were a bit noisy at first but quieted down once pressure was up and steady. (10-20 seconds)

Came back in the house for another cuppa. Meanwhile a stick that had been made for the purpose was jammed between the seat and the gas pedal.

 

[dbias]

https://youtu.be/ue7wM0QC5LE

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Linctex
I can't tell you how many times I have started Continental and Lycoming aircraft piston engines in -30*F (or COLDER) in the winter with straight 50W aircraft oil in the sump.

1000's of times.

No heat, either.

Sure.


Yes, exactly sure. Even hand propped more than one.
I've got friends in Alaska and Canada that'll echo the same stories I can... and have been for 50 years.

You do need to be thoroughly educated on the use of the primer.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Yes, exactly sure. Even hand propped more than one.
I've got friends in Alaska and Canada that'll echo the same stories I can... and have been for 50 years.

You do need to be thoroughly educated on the use of the primer.

Why? That's a full 90 degrees F below the ambient temperature Lycoming specs for that grade. Who would be so ignorant to do that?

 

[Ducked]

I read somewhere of big radial-single Soviet aircraft that they sold overseas that had a facility to inject fuel into the oil for startup.

 

[Silk]

Originally Posted by Ducked
Wish I still had my old Lada handbook. Can't remember what it said about oil, but there were a lot of extreme cold instructions. Think you were supposed to remove the (unusually big) battery overnight (and presumably you and Ninotchka cuddled up to it to keep it warm.)


My Lada handbook said to turn the lights on for a minute or so before starting...this was supposed to get the battery a bit warmer. Never had a starting problem with my Ladas, but the 2104 was missing the hot air intake tube, and on a cold winter night...we are talking nearly zero, so seriously cold for me...and it would die, than start up again as you tried to figure out what went wrong with your fine Russian car. It was the carb icing up, stopping, and the heatsoak melted the ice, and off you went again.

I don't know why the fixation on how thin an oil can be on start up - after a couple of minutes it doesn't matter what the W thing was, we have moved to the other side of the rating.

 

[OilUzer]

I've looked at a few owner manuals and you also see members posting them here from time to time and generally the following recommendations are listed for selecting oil with respect to ambient temperature:

Above 0°F 10Wx
Above -22°F 5Wx
Below -22°F 0Wx - some OM specify below -30°F ... close enough i suppose!

If it is not that significant to follow the above recommendations, why most (if not all) owner manuals specify them?

I have watched many Alaskan shows where the guy covers his airplane engine in winter and then puts a heater a few hours before take off to warm it up! So using 50W at -30°F and colder for 1000's of times or using SAE30 well below -30°F is surprising to me! If it didn't blew up, did it shorten the engine life?

Is there a minimum temperature considering mrv,ccs , pd pump, etc. that one should not go below for a given W grade? For example at what temp does 10W (conventional or syn) becomes near soild?

basically what I was getting at is if half of the U.S. or the world had winters like Oymyakon (refer to my original post), would there be a more suitable oil for that temperature range (I called it -8W or -1W)?
That's why I asked about supply & demand. More people, more $ and oil companies will/may? produce a more suitable oil to win the market share!
Are we technologically limited or since there is not enough $ in it i.e. not many live or like super cold places including Shannow

and we can live with what we have ... therefore 0W is it for now!

Anyways these are just questions ... I've lived in cold places and know what people use or used to use ... but does that mean it can't get any better? I had a friend in Fairbanks AK with exact same car (same engine) purchased new and this guy is much more meticulous than I am ... his engine blew up at about 80K miles. I sold mine at about 400K miles living in mild climates. We blamed it on cold temps!

 

[Shannow]

Half the world doesn't have that...so there's no need for that for the vast majority.

If half the world had the same starting temperatures as Ayer's Rock, then we'd be asking "What's a W grade ?"

 

[Silk]

20W-50 is good down to minus 15 C, and most manufacturers will have 20W-50 recommended down to minus 10 - that covers the whole of New Zealand, including the bits that go white in winter. On my short 3 kilometre commute, the temp guage just hits normal but the thermostat hasn't opened, and the sump is warm enough that I can't hold my hand on it for long. I don't see the point of the W rating where I live.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted by Silk
I don't see the point of the W rating where I live.


Same here, with knobs on.

However, although you CAN buy straight 40 in the supermarkets, and a few diehards probably still use it, most of the stuff on sale is skinny.