If you are looking for another MB 229.51 Spec oil. Schaeffer 5w-30 Mid-Saps oil has this spec. i know its hard to find oil with the 229.51 spec so i figured id chime in. Although you will probably find a better priced oil at walmart on sale.
2 OILS both meeting Mercedes 229.51 - big cost delta
- Thread starter RogerBacon
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Originally Posted by Diesel12
If you are looking for another MB 229.51 Spec oil. Schaeffer 5w-30 Mid-Saps oil has this spec. i know its hard to find oil with the 229.51 spec so i figured id chime in. Although you will probably find a better priced oil at walmart on sale.
No, it does not.
If you are looking for another MB 229.51 Spec oil. Schaeffer 5w-30 Mid-Saps oil has this spec. i know its hard to find oil with the 229.51 spec so i figured id chime in. Although you will probably find a better priced oil at walmart on sale.
No, it does not.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Diesel12
If you are looking for another MB 229.51 Spec oil. Schaeffer 5w-30 Mid-Saps oil has this spec. i know its hard to find oil with the 229.51 spec so i figured id chime in. Although you will probably find a better priced oil at walmart on sale.
No, it does not.
Okay, ill prove it i guess
Advanced European Performance Mid SAPs SAE 5W-30 meets, exceeds and is suitable for use for
the following specifications: ACEA C3-2012; API Service Classification SN/CF; GM dexos®-2
compliant, VW 502.00/505.00, Mercedes Benz MB 229.31; Porsche A40.
Advanced European Performance Mid SAPs SAE 5W-30 is also suitable for use in those
applications that specify the use of BMW Long Life-04, MB 229.51, Chrysler MS-11106 and VW
504.00/507.00 quality engine oil at the recommended OEM drain intervals.
Originally Posted by Diesel12
If you are looking for another MB 229.51 Spec oil. Schaeffer 5w-30 Mid-Saps oil has this spec. i know its hard to find oil with the 229.51 spec so i figured id chime in. Although you will probably find a better priced oil at walmart on sale.
No, it does not.
Okay, ill prove it i guess
Advanced European Performance Mid SAPs SAE 5W-30 meets, exceeds and is suitable for use for
the following specifications: ACEA C3-2012; API Service Classification SN/CF; GM dexos®-2
compliant, VW 502.00/505.00, Mercedes Benz MB 229.31; Porsche A40.
Advanced European Performance Mid SAPs SAE 5W-30 is also suitable for use in those
applications that specify the use of BMW Long Life-04, MB 229.51, Chrysler MS-11106 and VW
504.00/507.00 quality engine oil at the recommended OEM drain intervals.
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
Originally Posted by kschachn
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
Originally Posted by Diesel12
Originally Posted by kschachn
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
Whilst Schaeffer mid saps 5W30 does not have appropriate procedural MB 229.51 229.31 approvals, I've no doubt it is a mid SaPS C3.
Personally I wouldn't hesitate using it in a 229.51 MB engine out of warranty.
Originally Posted by kschachn
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
Whilst Schaeffer mid saps 5W30 does not have appropriate procedural MB 229.51 229.31 approvals, I've no doubt it is a mid SaPS C3.
Personally I wouldn't hesitate using it in a 229.51 MB engine out of warranty.
There must be something wrong with MB engines if they are THAT fussy about oil and can't run on anything else but their approved engine oils.
What is so unique about the 229.51 specification that a common CK-4/SN couldn't pass?
What is so unique about the 229.51 specification that a common CK-4/SN couldn't pass?
Originally Posted by Diesel12
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
You can easily look up Mercede's approved list here:
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/bevo-sheets-sort1.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
You can easily look up Mercede's approved list here:
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/bevo-sheets-sort1.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
Originally Posted by userfriendly
There must be something wrong with MB engines if they are THAT fussy about oil and can't run on anything else but their approved engine oils.
What is so unique about the 229.51 specification that a common CK-4/SN couldn't pass?
There is nothing "fussy." European manufacturers do not want customers to use anything in engines.
Approval process is actually very cheap and easy. Only thing oil company has to do is send oil to Mercedes and testing costs around $4000-5000. Of course, companies like Redline pushed narrative that approval process is uber expensive (it is not). Once they could not get away anymore with it they could not get approval for oils they claimed that meets or exceeds certain approvals, so they developed some mediocre oils and then again lied, in this case about Group III base oils.
There must be something wrong with MB engines if they are THAT fussy about oil and can't run on anything else but their approved engine oils.
What is so unique about the 229.51 specification that a common CK-4/SN couldn't pass?
There is nothing "fussy." European manufacturers do not want customers to use anything in engines.
Approval process is actually very cheap and easy. Only thing oil company has to do is send oil to Mercedes and testing costs around $4000-5000. Of course, companies like Redline pushed narrative that approval process is uber expensive (it is not). Once they could not get away anymore with it they could not get approval for oils they claimed that meets or exceeds certain approvals, so they developed some mediocre oils and then again lied, in this case about Group III base oils.
Originally Posted by Diesel12
Originally Posted by kschachn
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
Approval process costs around $4-5000. If Schaeffer claims it is expensive, that is because their oils cannot meet standards.
Redline was claiming same thing, that their products meet and exceed approvals, and once they decided to get approvals, they did not send their oils they claimed that are meeting and exceeding those approvals, they developed completely different oils which compared to other approved oils are mediocre at best.
So, if Schaeffer cannot pay $4-5000 for approval, that would be troublesome, which would be an understatement.
Originally Posted by kschachn
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
Approval process costs around $4-5000. If Schaeffer claims it is expensive, that is because their oils cannot meet standards.
Redline was claiming same thing, that their products meet and exceed approvals, and once they decided to get approvals, they did not send their oils they claimed that are meeting and exceeding those approvals, they developed completely different oils which compared to other approved oils are mediocre at best.
So, if Schaeffer cannot pay $4-5000 for approval, that would be troublesome, which would be an understatement.
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
Originally Posted by RogerBacon
2 oils, both meeting Mercedes 229.51. Pennzoil Platinum Euro Synthetic Motor Oil 5w30 - 10 litres $64. Mobile 1 ESP 5w30, 10 litres, $172. Is Mobile 1 3 times better than Pennzoil. I think not.
Was it actually Pennzoil Euro L like this one?
2 oils, both meeting Mercedes 229.51. Pennzoil Platinum Euro Synthetic Motor Oil 5w30 - 10 litres $64. Mobile 1 ESP 5w30, 10 litres, $172. Is Mobile 1 3 times better than Pennzoil. I think not.
Was it actually Pennzoil Euro L like this one?
Originally Posted by Diesel12
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
MB22.951 can be both Low and Mid-SAPS.
But, let's say that is true, how is it possible for Schaeffer to claim that it meets and exceeds requirements? If there is more SAPS then what MB requires then it cannot meet and exceed because per MB, it would hurt emissions.
Schaeffer decided to play meet and exceeds game. The question then is why they do not send oil for approval? If it cannot get approval, for any reason, then it cannot meet and exceed requirements.
Now, there will be those who will say: well look my wear numbers. However, MB taxis in Europe are running C3 oils for hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues, but where it gets tricky is whether Schaeffer or Redline or any other meet and exceeds oil is going to shorten DPF life. And considering price of that component, that is not something to play around.
Amsoil took high road and got some approvals.
Until Schaeffer gets approval, only thing I would say to anyone asking about that oil is to avoid it at any cost.
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
MB22.951 can be both Low and Mid-SAPS.
But, let's say that is true, how is it possible for Schaeffer to claim that it meets and exceeds requirements? If there is more SAPS then what MB requires then it cannot meet and exceed because per MB, it would hurt emissions.
Schaeffer decided to play meet and exceeds game. The question then is why they do not send oil for approval? If it cannot get approval, for any reason, then it cannot meet and exceed requirements.
Now, there will be those who will say: well look my wear numbers. However, MB taxis in Europe are running C3 oils for hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues, but where it gets tricky is whether Schaeffer or Redline or any other meet and exceeds oil is going to shorten DPF life. And considering price of that component, that is not something to play around.
Amsoil took high road and got some approvals.
Until Schaeffer gets approval, only thing I would say to anyone asking about that oil is to avoid it at any cost.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by RogerBacon
2 oils, both meeting Mercedes 229.51. Pennzoil Platinum Euro Synthetic Motor Oil 5w30 - 10 litres $64. Mobile 1 ESP 5w30, 10 litres, $172. Is Mobile 1 3 times better than Pennzoil. I think not.
Was it actually Pennzoil Euro L like this one?
Yes On sale at Cdn. Tire. The Mobile 1 was regular everyday price at the same store
Originally Posted by RogerBacon
2 oils, both meeting Mercedes 229.51. Pennzoil Platinum Euro Synthetic Motor Oil 5w30 - 10 litres $64. Mobile 1 ESP 5w30, 10 litres, $172. Is Mobile 1 3 times better than Pennzoil. I think not.
Was it actually Pennzoil Euro L like this one?
Yes On sale at Cdn. Tire. The Mobile 1 was regular everyday price at the same store
Originally Posted by Diesel12
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
MB 229.51 is a mid saps oil that always complies with all tests with C3 sequence. It never claims C1, C2, C4 or C5-12 or 16.
For that matter, it too never claims AxBx.
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
MB 229.51 is a mid saps oil that always complies with all tests with C3 sequence. It never claims C1, C2, C4 or C5-12 or 16.
For that matter, it too never claims AxBx.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by zeng
MB 229.51 is a mid saps oil that always complies with all tests with C3 sequence. It never claims C1, C2, C4 or C5-12 or 16.
For that matter, it too never claims AxBx.
And if you don't have actual MB 229.51 approval then you can claim anything you want.
MB 229.51 is a mid saps oil that always complies with all tests with C3 sequence. It never claims C1, C2, C4 or C5-12 or 16.
For that matter, it too never claims AxBx.
And if you don't have actual MB 229.51 approval then you can claim anything you want.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by zeng
MB 229.51 is a mid saps oil that always complies with all tests with C3 sequence. It never claims C1, C2, C4 or C5-12 or 16.
For that matter, it too never claims AxBx.
And if you don't have actual MB 229.51 approval then you can claim anything you want.
If you are referring to Schaeffers 5W30 mid saps oil and it's lack of MB 229.51 approval, that has been dealt with by Diesel12 below, which my post in bold above wasn't referring to.
Originally Posted by Diesel12
Originally Posted by kschachn
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
My post above in bold was specifically referring to Diesel12 post below:
Originally Posted by Diesel12
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
..... which has nothing to do with Schaeffers 5W30 mid saps per se.
Originally Posted by zeng
MB 229.51 is a mid saps oil that always complies with all tests with C3 sequence. It never claims C1, C2, C4 or C5-12 or 16.
For that matter, it too never claims AxBx.
And if you don't have actual MB 229.51 approval then you can claim anything you want.
If you are referring to Schaeffers 5W30 mid saps oil and it's lack of MB 229.51 approval, that has been dealt with by Diesel12 below, which my post in bold above wasn't referring to.
Originally Posted by Diesel12
Originally Posted by kschachn
No it does not have MB 229.51 approval. Yet another case of "is suitable for use" confusion which seems rampant on Bitog.
First off it is not a spec but an approval. The Schaeffer oil does not have the approval, you can check it out yourself on the Mercedes Benz approved oil page. If it were approved it would appear on that page and the wording would be as follows:
Quote
distinctly marked with the label indicating the approval of Mercedes-Benz, e.g. "MB-Approval 229.51". Labels referring e.g. to "MB 229.51" don't have an approval of Mercedes-Benz.
The Schaeffer product does not have MB 229.51 approval nor does it have any of the other approvals you list.
I stand corrected. Although Schaeffer is a reputable company they are not on the MB list. However i wouldnt be surprised if Schaeffer Exceeds their spec but they didnt wanna pay the price that comes with genuine approval. Thanks for the lesson learned.
My post above in bold was specifically referring to Diesel12 post below:
Originally Posted by Diesel12
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.
My guess is Schaeffer does not have the approval because their oil is Mid-Saps. I would bet that their oil would perform just as well as a true "approved" oil, just that since its not low saps they are not making the list. It is also possible that their oil doesnt meet EU-4 emmision standards either. Those 2 factors wouldnt matter to me but its all part of every manufacture individual requirements.
..... which has nothing to do with Schaeffers 5W30 mid saps per se.
Last edited:
https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/daimler-mb-229-51/
I looked up the MB 229.51 Specs from Lubrizol. Here they are-
The main physical and chemical requirements for MB229.51 are shown below:
HTHS-at 150°C CEC L-36-A-90 cP ⥠3.5 SCHAEFFER-3.6cp
Sulphated Ash ATSM-D874 %wt > 0.8 SCHAEFFER-0.8%
Phosphorus ASTM D5185 %wt ⥠0.05 and ⤠0.09 SCHAEFFER-744-843
Sulfur ASTM D5185 %wt ⤠0.3 SCHAEFFER-
Evaporation loss (NOACK) at 250°C CEC L-40-93 ⤠10% SCHAEFFER- 10%
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g ⥠6.0 SCHAEFFER-7.8
According to Schaeffer Technical Data Sheet they meet all these requirements with the exception of SULFUR which is not listed. That may be the contributing factor.
I looked up the MB 229.51 Specs from Lubrizol. Here they are-
The main physical and chemical requirements for MB229.51 are shown below:
HTHS-at 150°C CEC L-36-A-90 cP ⥠3.5 SCHAEFFER-3.6cp
Sulphated Ash ATSM-D874 %wt > 0.8 SCHAEFFER-0.8%
Phosphorus ASTM D5185 %wt ⥠0.05 and ⤠0.09 SCHAEFFER-744-843
Sulfur ASTM D5185 %wt ⤠0.3 SCHAEFFER-
Evaporation loss (NOACK) at 250°C CEC L-40-93 ⤠10% SCHAEFFER- 10%
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g ⥠6.0 SCHAEFFER-7.8
According to Schaeffer Technical Data Sheet they meet all these requirements with the exception of SULFUR which is not listed. That may be the contributing factor.
Originally Posted by Diesel12
https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/daimler-mb-229-51/
I looked up the MB 229.51 Specs from Lubrizol. Here they are-
All the specs listed on lubrizol is a part of ACEA C3 sequence.
Other than full compliance with ALL tests with ACEA C3 sequence , an oil requires passing numerous other MB engine tests to qualify for MB 229.51 approval.
Quote
HTHS-at 150°C CEC L-36-A-90 cP ⥠3.5 SCHAEFFER-3.6cp
Sulphated Ash ATSM-D874 %wt > 0.8 SCHAEFFER-0.8%
Phosphorus ASTM D5185 %wt ⥠0.05 and ⤠0.09 SCHAEFFER-744-843
Sulfur ASTM D5185 %wt ⤠0.3 SCHAEFFER-
Evaporation loss (NOACK) at 250°C CEC L-40-93 ⤠10% SCHAEFFER- 10%
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g ⥠6.0 SCHAEFFER-7.8
According to Schaeffer Technical Data Sheet they meet all these requirements with the exception of SULFUR which is not listed. That may be the contributing factor.
Though sulfur ppm isn't listed , Schaeffer claims its 8008 Advanced European Performance mid saps 5W30 is a C3 oil.......
which meets or exceeds 229.x1 though no proper MB approvals.
https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/daimler-mb-229-51/
I looked up the MB 229.51 Specs from Lubrizol. Here they are-
All the specs listed on lubrizol is a part of ACEA C3 sequence.
Other than full compliance with ALL tests with ACEA C3 sequence , an oil requires passing numerous other MB engine tests to qualify for MB 229.51 approval.
Quote
HTHS-at 150°C CEC L-36-A-90 cP ⥠3.5 SCHAEFFER-3.6cp
Sulphated Ash ATSM-D874 %wt > 0.8 SCHAEFFER-0.8%
Phosphorus ASTM D5185 %wt ⥠0.05 and ⤠0.09 SCHAEFFER-744-843
Sulfur ASTM D5185 %wt ⤠0.3 SCHAEFFER-
Evaporation loss (NOACK) at 250°C CEC L-40-93 ⤠10% SCHAEFFER- 10%
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g ⥠6.0 SCHAEFFER-7.8
According to Schaeffer Technical Data Sheet they meet all these requirements with the exception of SULFUR which is not listed. That may be the contributing factor.
Though sulfur ppm isn't listed , Schaeffer claims its 8008 Advanced European Performance mid saps 5W30 is a C3 oil.......
which meets or exceeds 229.x1 though no proper MB approvals.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Diesel12
https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/daimler-mb-229-51/
I looked up the MB 229.51 Specs from Lubrizol. Here they are-
The main physical and chemical requirements for MB229.51 are shown below:
HTHS-at 150°C CEC L-36-A-90 cP ⥠3.5 SCHAEFFER-3.6cp
Sulphated Ash ATSM-D874 %wt > 0.8 SCHAEFFER-0.8%
Phosphorus ASTM D5185 %wt ⥠0.05 and ⤠0.09 SCHAEFFER-744-843
Sulfur ASTM D5185 %wt ⤠0.3 SCHAEFFER-
Evaporation loss (NOACK) at 250°C CEC L-40-93 ⤠10% SCHAEFFER- 10%
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g ⥠6.0 SCHAEFFER-7.8
According to Schaeffer Technical Data Sheet they meet all these requirements with the exception of SULFUR which is not listed. That may be the contributing factor.
You do not know what approvals mean.
It is not enough just to list how much of certain compound is in oil. The real question is how that oil performs in the engine. When company sends oil for approval, MB or VW or BMW or whatever test that oil for certain number of hours in engine, and then take sample of oil and test it, as well as check for deposits in engine etc. MB will not issue approval without testing that oil for OCI they recommend for engines that use MB229.51 or any other spec.
https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/daimler-mb-229-51/
I looked up the MB 229.51 Specs from Lubrizol. Here they are-
The main physical and chemical requirements for MB229.51 are shown below:
HTHS-at 150°C CEC L-36-A-90 cP ⥠3.5 SCHAEFFER-3.6cp
Sulphated Ash ATSM-D874 %wt > 0.8 SCHAEFFER-0.8%
Phosphorus ASTM D5185 %wt ⥠0.05 and ⤠0.09 SCHAEFFER-744-843
Sulfur ASTM D5185 %wt ⤠0.3 SCHAEFFER-
Evaporation loss (NOACK) at 250°C CEC L-40-93 ⤠10% SCHAEFFER- 10%
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g ⥠6.0 SCHAEFFER-7.8
According to Schaeffer Technical Data Sheet they meet all these requirements with the exception of SULFUR which is not listed. That may be the contributing factor.
You do not know what approvals mean.
It is not enough just to list how much of certain compound is in oil. The real question is how that oil performs in the engine. When company sends oil for approval, MB or VW or BMW or whatever test that oil for certain number of hours in engine, and then take sample of oil and test it, as well as check for deposits in engine etc. MB will not issue approval without testing that oil for OCI they recommend for engines that use MB229.51 or any other spec.
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