AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history

[Vikas]

Where would the landing lights be pointing at? "Where is this guy going?" came from the pilot on the ground. was his plane being painted by the light of AC759? is it that easy for the pilot on the ground to ascertain that the AC579 was going to land on top of his plane? conversely, why the crew were not able to see the big planes on the taxiway?

Was it possible for the ATC to know AC579 was heading towards the taxiway from his view point? If not, how can he share the blame for this incident?

Erasing the voice data really puts the aircraft crew in bad light. If this was being treated as an accident investigation then the CVR data had to be immediately secured after the landing. There were speculations that the crew would NOT do that on their own to mask their culpability and now those fears have come true.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Where would the landing lights be pointing at? "Where is this guy going?" came from the pilot on the ground. was his plane being painted by the light of AC759? is it that easy for the pilot on the ground to ascertain that the AC579 was going to land on top of his plane? conversely, why the crew were not able to see the big planes on the taxiway?

Was it possible for the ATC to know AC579 was heading towards the taxiway from his view point? If not, how can he share the blame for this incident?

Erasing the voice data really puts the aircraft crew in bad light. If this was being treated as an accident investigation then the CVR data had to be immediately secured after the landing. There were speculations that the crew would NOT do that on their own to mask their culpability and now those fears have come true.

It's pretty obvious that this was a "loss of situational awareness". The taxiway lights are a different color, there were obviously the flashing lights of taxiing planes on the taxiway. If anything it would be like someone going around a median divider down the wrong way of a divided street. I've actually been there and avoided going head on with someone who went the wrong way.

With technology I'm wondering if it might be possible to do something like light up the runway numbers. That would have made it pretty apparent.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Where would the landing lights be pointing at? "Where is this guy going?" came from the pilot on the ground. was his plane being painted by the light of AC759? is it that easy for the pilot on the ground to ascertain that the AC579 was going to land on top of his plane? conversely, why the crew were not able to see the big planes on the taxiway?

Was it possible for the ATC to know AC579 was heading towards the taxiway from his view point? If not, how can he share the blame for this incident?

Erasing the voice data really puts the aircraft crew in bad light. If this was being treated as an accident investigation then the CVR data had to be immediately secured after the landing. There were speculations that the crew would NOT do that on their own to mask their culpability and now those fears have come true.


Did you read any of my posts on this?

I've addressed every one of your points..

I've explained ATC's role in this.

I'll re-iterate this simple fact: the crew CANNOT erase the CVR. That can only be done on the ground, by maintenance. The voice recording is, however, automatically over-written by continuing to record as the flight continues. And engines running means the flight is continuing and energizing the CVR.

So, no, it doesn't put the crew in a bad light.

Unless you deliberately choose to ignore how that device works, and decide to engage in speculation predicated on ignorance.

And landing lights are broad spread - not lasers, so, no, seeing where they would be "pointing" isn't really possible.

 

[Astro14]

A view of 28R from final. No lights on, broad daylight.

28L was closed for repairs that night. All lights off.

So take that picture: Make it dark, turn off the lights for 28L, leaving only the lights for the taxiway and 28R.

"Cleared to land on two eight right"

It would be very, very easy to line up on the lights on the "right"... which happen to be the taxiway...and that's exactly what happened.

Why didn't ATC assign the ILS?

Why didn't the crew read/understand the NOTAMS that 28L was out of service?

Why wasn't tower watching?

All questions that will be addressed by the investigation that is taking place.

 

[Vikas]

Can tower watch ascertain if the plane is lined up with runway or taxiway from their point of view?

 

[Youppi]

Full NTSB report released here: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AIR1801.pdf

 

[PeterPolyol]

Transport Canada better revise their aviation rest rules. It's stated in the report that the captain was awake for 19+hours and FO for 12+. How were these guys flying a plane? In the Rail industry which is arguably less potentially fatal, rest is absolutely critical and they need 8 hours minimum undisturbed before working again. If you so much as call a guy in his rest period, first his rest period resets and second you face discipline for delaying a crew and associated train, for the incurred costs of recrewing and delivery delays, and taking a crew needlessly out of service. That's just for trains.

Originally Posted by Vikas
"Where is this guy going?"

This one never gets old, it has to be one of the most understated radio transmission in aviation history

 

[xfactor9]

That NTSB report was very critical of the pilots.

A NOTAM informed the pilots of runway 28L's closure. While both said they reviewed the NOTAM, neither could remember it mentioning the runway closure. In other words, they glanced over it and forgot about what they read.

Then there's the fact the first officer failed to tune the ILS to 28R, and the fact the captain failed to confirm the FO was supposed to do this.

These two should vacuuming planes not flying them

 

[Win]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ford-taxiway-agreement-20170331-story.html

"Actor Harrison Ford can continue to fly without restriction despite narrowly missing a jetliner carrying 100 passengers and landing his small plane on the wrong stretch of tarmac at John Wayne Airport in Orange County in February.

A Federal Aviation Administration investigation concluded that no enforcement action was warranted in the incident. The agency required only "awareness training," which Ford has already completed."

If you're going to screw up big time and land on a taxiway, it helps to be an A list movie star.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted by xfactor9
That NTSB report was very critical of the pilots.

A NOTAM informed the pilots of runway 28L's closure. While both said they reviewed the NOTAM, neither could remember it mentioning the runway closure. In other words, they glanced over it and forgot about what they read.

Then there's the fact the first officer failed to tune the ILS to 28R, and the fact the captain failed to confirm the FO was supposed to do this.

These two should vacuuming planes not flying them

Astro is going to tell you to ignore the NTSB report. What does NTSB know? They have no real pilots doing the investigation. Pilot and FO are NOT to be blamed for this NON accident.

Am I right or am I right?

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by Vikas
Originally Posted by xfactor9
That NTSB report was very critical of the pilots.

A NOTAM informed the pilots of runway 28L's closure. While both said they reviewed the NOTAM, neither could remember it mentioning the runway closure. In other words, they glanced over it and forgot about what they read.

Then there's the fact the first officer failed to tune the ILS to 28R, and the fact the captain failed to confirm the FO was supposed to do this.

These two should vacuuming planes not flying them

Astro is going to tell you to ignore the NTSB report. What does NTSB know? They have no real pilots doing the investigation. Pilot and FO are NOT to be blamed for this NON accident.

Am I right or am I right?


Well...

I'm going to ask everyone to go back and read my previous posts.

Then I'm going to ask everyone to read the NTSB report and note how similar my posts, including my criticism of the pilots, were to the NTSB conclusions.

Then, I'm going to ask everyone to ignore your posts.

Because clearly, you haven't read what I said on this, and clearly, objective analysis and reading comprehension aren't among your strengths.

 

[PimTac]

There are too many factors here to simply lay blame on the pilots. SFO, from my understanding is not a easy airport to land at. As a passenger watching the action from the mezzanine of the A concourse, I was thoroughly impressed at how everything was timed. This airport has two sets of parallel runways that cross each other. It's not a simple approach either.