03Accord - trans NoLoad dwnshifts, now slips? also wont hold cruise..

[columnshift]

Vehicle 2003 Honda Accord EX V6, 5 speed auto, 179k miles, trans rebuilt at a kennedy transmission at 110k


Above vehicle was basically running fine (certainly in terms of the trans) all the sudden it's not. Checked dipstick and it doesn't seem low on fluid or stinky bad fluid or anything - it was literally shifting flawlessly until today.

Driving about 80mph on highway and was going along fine and out of the blue the vehicle drops out of cruise, downshifts a gear (it wasnt just going out of converter lockup, the RPM went up to 3k rpm and such obviously) for like half a second and then resumes. I cant 100% swear I didn't bump the brake somehow so I continue on. Maybe 40 miles later, again suddenly downshifts (revs to 3k rpm), drops out of cruise. This happens maybe 2 or 3 more times after this too on a 240 mile trip, all highway miles. I start driving without the cruise to see if that's somehow aggravating it - and once when I drop the throttle to zero load it does the same downshift, rev to 3krpm, and then back to normal gear. This is all with no real hills or wind - no real load. So I drive slower at 70mph.

Finally get into town - seems okay at first, but then when just going at 40mph in town it seems to do the wierd downshift at again zero load and nearly no throttle, so it's not just highway speed. Car jerks. Then a mile later, suddenly it slips a shift - this time it revs up past the shift point before suddenly catching, again at extremely low throttle and only 35mph. Two miles later, it does it again and slips a shift.

So now i'm parked wondering what in the world is going on. There are no codes thrown. I can post a picture of the trans fluid later when my phone charges but it seemed quite normal, and around the two little dots on the bottom of the dipstick. (there was also a dot multiple inches up the stick - stupid Honda doesn't have any words saying normal level anywhere, so i'm assuming it's between the lower dots, otherwise yes it is low on fluid somehow)


Unlike my previous 'emergency' post trying to help a friend with a slipping trans just limp it a bit further, this car was meant to be a keeper - I need it for school and work, I have money to take it to someone but not for another $3500 rebuild, the whole point of the car was believing I wouldn't need to worry about engine (honda reliability) or trans (rebuilt 70k ago) so I honestly overpaid vs book value hoping it would be okay. It's otherwise a nice car that I like and has no other problems minor or major that i'm aware of. But I dont have a pocketbook for major trans work.

 

[TTK]

Maybe a main computer issue.

 

[Nick1994]

70k miles is about right for an early 00's V6 Honda automatic transmission.

 

[columnshift]

Originally Posted by TTK
Maybe a main computer issue.


Possible, but shouldn't something throw a code? How would I even do a differential diagnosis to know?

It was suggested to me (prev owner) that when the trans died before it didn't throw any codes though, it just started slam shifting and jerking violently before needing it's rebuild.

I'm just hoping "maybe there is some 2003 honda 5 speed auto quirk" that somehow leads to this behavior, or somebody will recognize or remember reading of somewhere... I dont know if the cruise is related or not other than it started at exactly the same time/this bizarre "drop out of cruise and suddenly downshift" even though dropping out of cruise is the same effect as dropping the footfeed, since it did the same thing out of cruise when I did that later.

 

[dogememe]

Originally Posted by Nick1994
70k miles is about right for an early 00's V6 Honda automatic transmission.

Yup

 

[slacktide_bitog]

70k isn't bad for a V6 Honda automatic

$3500 should get you a better car with a real transmission. That means no V6 Honda automatic, and no Chrysler minivans.

If you like the Accord, the 4-cylinder version is good, and much easier to live with. The 4-cylinder automatic is fine. If you still want a V6, it was available with a manual transmission in 2006 and 2007 (in the 2-door, the V6 manual was offered from 2003-2017).

 

[clinebarger]

Did the speedometer act funny also.....A erratic VSS signal can cause all these symptoms.

 

[clinebarger]

Transmission shops just throw "Banner Kit's" & a torque converter in these units......That's the reason they NEVER last after a so-called rebuild.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
70k isn't bad for a V6 Honda automatic

$3500 should get you a better car with a real transmission. That means no V6 Honda automatic, and no Chrysler minivans.

If you like the Accord, the 4-cylinder version is good, and much easier to live with. The 4-cylinder automatic is fine. If you still want a V6, it was available with a manual transmission in 2006 and 2007 (in the 2-door, the V6 manual was offered from 2003-2017).


These automatics are real transmissions. The 2003-2004 model years of the 7th generation were prone to failure due to a poor design that allowed overheating. This affected both V6 AND 4 cylinder models. 2006+ V6 and 4 cylinder Accords equipped with the 5 speed auto are about as solid as they come.

 

[dogememe]

Originally Posted by gregk24
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
70k isn't bad for a V6 Honda automatic

$3500 should get you a better car with a real transmission. That means no V6 Honda automatic, and no Chrysler minivans.

If you like the Accord, the 4-cylinder version is good, and much easier to live with. The 4-cylinder automatic is fine. If you still want a V6, it was available with a manual transmission in 2006 and 2007 (in the 2-door, the V6 manual was offered from 2003-2017).


These automatics are real transmissions. The 2003-2004 model years of the 7th generation were prone to failure due to a poor design that allowed overheating. This affected both V6 AND 4 cylinder models. 2006+ V6 and 4 cylinder Accords equipped with the 5 speed auto are about as solid as they come.

Pretty sure the pre 2003 v6 automatic Accords suffer from reliability issues, not just 03+

 

[spackard]

IMO, it's dead. Get it to the repair shop (or junkyard) before it can't get their under its own power.
I'd think putting another $3500 into it wouldn't make much sense, versus getting an '06+ like a previous poster points out.

I have an '03 Acura TL-S, it did not give much notice before it died. I noticed it first climbing a familiar hill at fwy speed with the cruise on and it kicked down two gears instead of one. I think I parked it one or two days later and drove my backup car, until I had time to get it to the shop.

FWIW, my rebuild included a add-on separate oil cooler. Shop said they hadn't had a come-back yet from that rebuilder.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by spackard
IMO, it's dead. Get it to the repair shop (or junkyard) before it can't get their under its own power.
I'd think putting another $3500 into it wouldn't make much sense, versus getting an '06+ like a previous poster points out.

I have an '03 Acura TL-S, it did not give much notice before it died. I noticed it first climbing a familiar hill at fwy speed with the cruise on and it kicked down two gears instead of one. I think I parked it one or two days later and drove my backup car, until I had time to get it to the shop.

FWIW, my rebuild included a add-on separate oil cooler. Shop said they hadn't had a come-back yet from that rebuilder.


It still needs to be diagnosed properly! I see this type of knee jerk reaction far to often in the field......I've had a few MAYA/BAYA Honda units on my bench that ONLY got pulled because their reputation, Only to find absolutely nothing wrong with the unit & it WAS an electrical/sensor input issue!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by spackard
IMO, it's dead. Get it to the repair shop (or junkyard) before it can't get their under its own power.
I'd think putting another $3500 into it wouldn't make much sense, versus getting an '06+ like a previous poster points out.

I have an '03 Acura TL-S, it did not give much notice before it died. I noticed it first climbing a familiar hill at fwy speed with the cruise on and it kicked down two gears instead of one. I think I parked it one or two days later and drove my backup car, until I had time to get it to the shop.

FWIW, my rebuild included a add-on separate oil cooler. Shop said they hadn't had a come-back yet from that rebuilder.


It still needs to be diagnosed properly!


Exactly! These transmissions were problematic, however many were needlessly rebuilt or replaced for an electrical issue or sensor that was bad.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
It still needs to be diagnosed properly! I see this type of knee jerk reaction far to often in the field......I've had a few MAYA/BAYA Honda units on my bench that ONLY got pulled because their reputation, Only to find absolutely nothing wrong with the unit & it WAS an electrical/sensor input issue!


+1 That's the most important part of any repair. Common sense really but it eludes many people, they prefer the knee jerk.

 

[columnshift]

Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by clinebarger
It still needs to be diagnosed properly! I see this type of knee jerk reaction far to often in the field......I've had a few MAYA/BAYA Honda units on my bench that ONLY got pulled because their reputation, Only to find absolutely nothing wrong with the unit & it WAS an electrical/sensor input issue!


+1 That's the most important part of any repair. Common sense really but it eludes many people, they prefer the knee jerk.




Thats what i'm trying to avoid - a knee jerk reaction.

Facts I have - yes it's the 2003 transmission that honda recalled later, although he rebuilt it before the recall was I think issued cuz he had kennedy transmission do it. It WAS rebuilt at 110,000 miles (I reasked and verified) around 2009-2010, and my hope was that that would have fixed whatever problems, because shouldn't those first year problems have been known by then and been fixed in a rebuild?

I also found out that he has not changed the trans fluid since the rebuild so it has 70k on what is supposed to be changed at 60k afterall. (hasn't bothered with the dealer since that time - FWIW the timing belt was done as scheduled at 100k, but from 110k to 170k the only things the vehicle may have had done are oil changes)

Is the honda likely to be THAT sensitive to fluid, how many miles past normally brings up problems? Or would a rebuild around that time "not have fixed whatever caused these transmissions to fail" afterall? (i'm not even sure what differences there are for 2003 vs 2006, if someone wants to school me)

EDIT: a friend of mine says that the trans are very sensitive to fluid problems, and that's the first thing to do, i'm just wondering if it's a known thing with honda's to be this finicky or if it's on borrowed time regardless. (ie changing fluid might get me another 10k, not another 80k even with additional regular changes)

EDIT2: Does anyone want to link me to a good video on how to change the trans fluid on it at least? I see a few videos on youtube, but then with people saying "thats the wrong way to do it" in their comments so I have no idea whats right or wrong for this car...

 

[SatinSilver]

One option is taking it to the Honda dealer for a diagnosis. The owner can pay a diag fee of $75-100 to get a good idea of what's going on with it. Checking the fluid level, a fluid change, a new sensor or two to fix it would be ideal. All those things may have helped it initially but that's water under the bridge now.

I had a bad trans flare btw 1st and 2nd after the dealer changed the rear main seal on a 99 Accord 4cyl. They did a simple drain and fill and no more issues till I sold the car 70k miles later.

 

[columnshift]

Does anyone have suggestions as to what RATE the transmission might degrade? If it's just started acting this way only now, i'm wondering if I have less than a week/500 miles, or a month to sort this out, or what.

Normally I expect transmissions to slip on acceleration, not such low load conditions. So i'm not even sure if granny-driving it will protect it any. I can't even lock out overdrive that I can tell, the shifter just has D3 and D - and D3 is too low. (3rd not 4th)

 

[columnshift]

Originally Posted by SatinSilver
One option is taking it to the Honda dealer for a diagnosis. The owner can pay a diag fee of $75-100 to get a good idea of what's going on with it. Checking the fluid level, a fluid change, a new sensor or two to fix it would be ideal. All those things may have helped it initially but that's water under the bridge now.

I had a bad trans flare btw 1st and 2nd after the dealer changed the rear main seal on a 99 Accord 4cyl. They did a simple drain and fill and no more issues till I sold the car 70k miles later.


Also are you suggesting those things are pointless to do now?

FWIW the car just drove 80 miles without any problem whatsoever, some city some highway. Fluid level seems normal, and again the fluid doesn't look all bad or such either, it's just 10k beyond the proper change interval.

If there's a sensor or two to fix it i'm wondering if those are DIY or some $1000 honda nightmare - for that price I could almost grab another car, when I dont even know what the life is otherwise now that so much doubt has been raised about it.

I'm wondering if I can do a fluid change myself - but I dont have a hoist. I understand normally they'd run the car on the hoist up thru 2nd gear to get fluid flowing, so you can add more and drain as you go. But is there a way to do it just changing fluid that's available, driving it a bit, then changing some more? Even if it's a bit wasteful on fluid, it's better than nothing. Even if I cant fully drain all 100% could I dilute it with a series of a couple changes....

...and is the trans THAT sensitive to being just 10k over the suggested interval that it's likely to start malfunctioning that soon to begin with. Seeking opinion of Honda lovers here not Honda cynics...

 

[slacktide_bitog]

You don't need a hoist. Just jack it up or drive it on ramps like you would to change the oil.In fact, Honda ATF changes are actually easier than doing an oil change

Changing the ATF on a Honda is VERY easy because there is a drain plug. You need a 3/8 drive, no socket. You just stick the 3/8 square part in the drain plug and loosen it and take it off. Also, Honda's transmission drain plugs are magnetic. You may see magnetic shavings on the drain plug.

Whatever you drain out, that is how much you put back in. The official capacity is 3.1 qt. If you want to do a more complete and thorough flush, the official Honda-sanctioned method is to simply do the same drain-and-fill 3-4x, with some driving between the drains. That "some driving" could be anywhere from around the block to 5000 miles.

And remember, on a Honda, you check the ATF with the car OFF. Get the transmission warmed up, shut the car off, then wait about a minute or two and then check it.

 

[JamesBond]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Transmission shops just throw "Banner Kit's" & a torque converter in these units......That's the reason they NEVER last after a so-called rebuild.


Could you explain what should be replaced in a transmission rebuild in addition to a "banner kit" and torque converter? Thank you in advance.