E-15 fuel in approval stages

[meep]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...-sales-of-gas-with-higher-ethanol-blend/

If this is approved, how will current vehicles handle it? GM, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, others - all selling highly tuned high compression turbocharged DI engines which will certainly be specifically programmed to work with the characteristics of a specific fuel.... will automakers be able to release flashes to work with this or does it get worse? That's 50% more ethanol than is now in the blend... which is still not a lot - it's 5% overall, but at what point do seals and rubber bits begin to care?

-m

 

[JayhawkRoy]

There is no requirement for anyone to use the stuff. This merely allows for year round sales of E15. In some locations, E15 is available for nine months a year, anyway. All other ethanol variations (including E0) will still be available.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by JayhawkRoy
There is no requirement for anyone to use the stuff. This merely allows for year round sales of E15. In some locations, E15 is available for nine months a year, anyway. All other ethanol variations (including E0) will still be available.

Not always, where oxygenated fuel is mandated you cannot purchase E0.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Being near a lake, E0 is still readily available. One of the gas station chains got rid of it and a lot of people complained. To the point that they got it back within a month.

Apart from losing some gas mileage, I don't mind it in EFI vehicles. My carbureted OPE gets ethanol free fuel. It really does help.

 

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted by JayhawkRoy
There is no requirement for anyone to use the stuff. This merely allows for year round sales of E15. In some locations, E15 is available for nine months a year, anyway. All other ethanol variations (including E0) will still be available.


No requirement but if the local gas dealer only sells E15 then that is the only option drivers will have. Or if they offer E10 and E15 it will only take 1 gas station to sell E15 a hair cheaper and others will have to use it to stay competitive.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Shouldn't be an issue at all.

 

[WyrTwister]

You look at the gas pumps / dispensers in our state . If the gas has any ethanol , there is a sign stating that by law it may have up to 10% ethanol . I always assume it has the max .

This season , I have been going to one of the few stations that have 100% unleaded , at an extra cost , for my small engines . Bought a new mower and hope the carb is more trouble free with 100% unleaded .

 

[c502cid]

This discussion was had in the late 70's early 80's when they were pulling lead from the fuel. If Bitog had been around then the sky would have been falling. In the end, everyone lived.

 

[CharBaby]

Where I've seen E15 offered, it was only in addition to the others. E15 didn't replace e.g., E10, it's right next to it at the pumps.

 

[earlyre]

In my county, there are a total of 3 stations that sell gas that isn't E10. 2(at opposite ends of the county) that sell E85, and 1 that has 91 octane E0
other than those 3 stations, EVERYTHING is E10.
and I really don't forsee anyone adding in an additional tank to add in E15. it would have to replace something in their current lineup.

we have the refinery that makes ALL the gas sold in the area.(approx 25% of the gasoline sold in Ohio)
we have an ethanol plant more or less next to the refinery (mile or 2 up the road)
we have the Fuel Depot where ALL the tankers in this part of the state fill up.
E85 isn't even offered at the Depot. to get a load of E85, the Nearest Depot offering it is 2 hrs away in southern MI. (this is from talking to the tanker drivers that deliver to the station at which I sometimes work)

 

[old1]

I would think that most stations that add E15 will be the ones that have blending pumps, and only have 2 tanks but can deliver many different blends. Around here I personally don't know of any.

 

[czbrian]

The 1.5L turbo in the Chevy Equinox is ok with E15. The manual says "Gasoline-ethanol fuel blends greater than E15 (15% ethanol by volume), such as E85, cannot be used in this vehicle." The slightly higher octane over regular 87 octane may have a small benefit.

I've also been using E15 in my Volt (not DI/turbo)since the closest station to me is a Murphy's that sells E15 and E85 in addition to the normal E10 grades. The Volt manual seems to imply its ok. It says "Gasolines containing oxygenates, such as ethers and ethanol, as well as reformulated gasolines are available in some cities. If these gasolines comply with the previously described specification, then they are acceptable to use. However, E85 and other fuels containing more than 15% ethanol must be used only in FlexFuel vehicles."

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by czbrian
The slightly higher octane over regular 87 octane may have a small benefit.


That's the thing... there is NO octane benefit, because they blend in stuff weaker than 87 with the ethanol to get it back to 87 octane. They don't start with 87 octane and then add ethanol. They use the ~105 octane number of the ethanol to get it up to snuff. Which obviously isn't a 1:1 tradeoff.

 

[dlundblad]

E0 options should hopefully still be out there.

I have quite a few stations local to me that sell E0 now.

One close to my work has E0 91 for only $.80 more than E10 regular. Not too bad.

 

[Cujet]

Many vehicles already are labeled as "OK" for E-15. I rent cars all the time and the caps clearly indicate E-15 to E-0 is OK.

Also, today's vehicles are perfectly fine with ethanol in the fuel, with regard to seals and gaskets.

More interesting is the fact that many of today's NON flex fuel vehicles can operate on E-85 with no issues at all. There is an entire group of people who use E-85 in their non flex fuel cars with good results. Some cars are better than others with this.

Quote:

"some non flex fuel vehicles adapt to changes in ethanol content indirectly via closed loop fuel trimming based on oxygen sensor readings referenced against air/fuel ratio targets. Most modern vehicles do this, but the quality and range of response varies wildly from platform to platform"

 

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted by c502cid
This discussion was had in the late 70's early 80's when they were pulling lead from the fuel. If Bitog had been around then the sky would have been falling. In the end, everyone lived.


You must not have paid very good attention then. Many cars had failing valves/seats when lead was removed. Retarding the timing helped but hardened valve seats was required if you wanted your car to last.
This still comes up on those with older cars and using older heads that have not been upgraded.


E15 is not an issue because of the ethanol, but because a lot of cars on the road may have issues with it. Just like removing lead showed the weakness of older cars. And that does not even begin to cover the issues in smaller motors that already have issues with E10.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Shouldn't be an issue at all.


Whats you basis for this comment?

My O.M. states NOT to use E15 It also state if I use E15 and the engine is damaged I'm on the hook.

I guess its NOT an Issue if you don't pump it,

 

[StevieC]

My 2018 Toyota that is being traded in says on the gas cap not to use E-85 or E-15 but says up to E-10 is acceptable in the owners manual. The Dodge Caravan that is replacing that vehicle is Flex Fuel rated up to E-85. I think it depends on components used in the vehicle and whether they can handle it. Neither is better than the other... Just stating the reason behind it.

 

[StevieC]

Double Post

 

[meep]

^^^ experienced this. Had the valves redone and additional porting drilled for improved oil flow and cooling at the stem of the valve. This is what was recommended at the time in our locale. Still had valve-predetonation issues after. In the end, it took all that work, plus 93 octane, minimum, to run right. Anything less and it would eventually stop moving forward on level ground. this was in a fully rebuilt and clean chevy 283. Since nobody knew exactly how to handle it, different things were tried. Mine ended up consuming a fair amount of oil; I was not convinced they drilled everything out properly. So yea, there was a real cost to consumers with older cars.

-m