I like Ethanol. Especially in Canadian Club whiskey. However a lot of folks don't seem to like it in their gasoline. Attached is a photo from a Husky gas station. Husky adopted Ethanol in gasoline many years ago, before the days of mandated ethanol requirements. They have up to 10% in the make up and as you can see their top octane rating is 94. They have always advertised that their gas is "nature's fuel". I have a "spare" car that is 18 years old, with about 150,000 miles that has been using regular fuel with ethanol the whole time and has never has any issues. What are people experiencing out there that makes them dislike ethanol in gasoline? Thanks.
Hatred for Ethanol
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Zee09
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In my expensive mowers I have to run Star Tron every tank or I'm asking for big time issues
if the mower sits for a few weeks. Some of these mowers cost the same price as new economy cars.
Let them sit too long you won't get them started.
if the mower sits for a few weeks. Some of these mowers cost the same price as new economy cars.
Let them sit too long you won't get them started.
The problem with ethanol especially in older vehicles and small engine equipment is that it eats at the rubber in the engine. Newer motors are not as subject to this, but the whole thing is that there is NO benefit to its use except to the corn growing farmers.
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
Lower BTUs, clogs carbs, bad MPG to buy the votes of farmers. If you think about it, ethanol became a component in gasoline when FI cars really started to outnumber carburated ones. In addition to that, now we have to buy even more expensive fuel/ stabilizers for our OPE to ensure that it runs correctly. We are getting screwed on multiple levels. Ethanol in fuel is essentially poison to any carburated engine or old vehicle with an old but otherwise functional fuel system.
I hate it when the government decides the winners and losers.
I hate it when the government decides the winners and losers.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
I thought marine gasoline was all E0 because owners tend to use them around water. Why in the world would they be using that junk in boat motors?
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
I thought marine gasoline was all E0 because owners tend to use them around water. Why in the world would they be using that junk in boat motors?
It does NOT attract moisture/water. It absorbs moisture/water that is already there and allows it to burn.
Back on the 1980's, I used to go out of my way to a station that sold Gasahol (ethanol) to keep the fuel lines and carburetor clean. Also did the job of Dry Gas in the winter.
Today, there are nearby stations that sell 100% gas. I tried it for a couple weeks. NO DIFFERENCE in fuel economy. E10 also a lot cheaper. (Tried E85 once in my Flex Fuel Mercedes once. - yes, mileage went down).
Back on the 1980's, I used to go out of my way to a station that sold Gasahol (ethanol) to keep the fuel lines and carburetor clean. Also did the job of Dry Gas in the winter.
Today, there are nearby stations that sell 100% gas. I tried it for a couple weeks. NO DIFFERENCE in fuel economy. E10 also a lot cheaper. (Tried E85 once in my Flex Fuel Mercedes once. - yes, mileage went down).
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Lower BTUs, clogs carbs, bad MPG to buy the votes of farmers. If you think about it, ethanol became a component in gasoline when FI cars really started to outnumber carburated ones. In addition to that, now we have to buy even more expensive fuel/ stabilizers for our OPE to ensure that it runs correctly. We are getting screwed on multiple levels. Ethanol in fuel is essentially poison to any carburated engine or old vehicle with an old but otherwise functional fuel system.
I hate it when the government decides the winners and losers.
How do you feel about the federal government setting piloting and maintenance standards for the airliner you are in at thirty nine thousand feet and moving along at five hundred miles an hour? We haven't seen too many aviation accidents like the TWA/United mid-airs over the Grand Canyon and Brooklyn since the government set up the flight control system we have in place today.
Lower BTUs, clogs carbs, bad MPG to buy the votes of farmers. If you think about it, ethanol became a component in gasoline when FI cars really started to outnumber carburated ones. In addition to that, now we have to buy even more expensive fuel/ stabilizers for our OPE to ensure that it runs correctly. We are getting screwed on multiple levels. Ethanol in fuel is essentially poison to any carburated engine or old vehicle with an old but otherwise functional fuel system.
I hate it when the government decides the winners and losers.
How do you feel about the federal government setting piloting and maintenance standards for the airliner you are in at thirty nine thousand feet and moving along at five hundred miles an hour? We haven't seen too many aviation accidents like the TWA/United mid-airs over the Grand Canyon and Brooklyn since the government set up the flight control system we have in place today.
I like ethanol in gasoline from an engineering point of view, just not the subsidies since methanol would be even better.
Either methanol or ethanol an excellent octane booster for the cost, and once you've gotten rid of any incompatible materials it keeps the fuel system corrosion-free and spotless. All the hatred is based on misunderstanding. ALL oxygenated fuels don't store well and deteriorate even in sealed tanks, whether it be oxygenated with ethanol, MTBE, or other compounds. Nature of the beast. Anyone who thinks they're improving things buy buying "ethanol free" fuel is kidding themselves, unless they are getting truly non-oxygenated race fuel or aviation fuel. And if ethanol (by itself) were so bad, why is it exactly what people have been adding in the form of "Dry Gas" and "Heet" for decades to remove water contamination from the system? Yes, it does cause water to emulsify in the fuel... but that's the idea, get it to emulsify and pass straight through as the engine runs, NOT to pool in the bottom of tanks and low points in steel lines and cause corrosion. Problems only arise when people park engines for extended periods without making sure the tanks are full of fresh fuel, with NO air space, and with a stabilizer added. The worst thing you can do is run a boat or car in a humid area nearly empty of fuel then park it for months thinking "I'll put all fresh gas in when I use it again." Top off before parking, and add stabilizer (regardless of ethanol content of fuel).
Either methanol or ethanol an excellent octane booster for the cost, and once you've gotten rid of any incompatible materials it keeps the fuel system corrosion-free and spotless. All the hatred is based on misunderstanding. ALL oxygenated fuels don't store well and deteriorate even in sealed tanks, whether it be oxygenated with ethanol, MTBE, or other compounds. Nature of the beast. Anyone who thinks they're improving things buy buying "ethanol free" fuel is kidding themselves, unless they are getting truly non-oxygenated race fuel or aviation fuel. And if ethanol (by itself) were so bad, why is it exactly what people have been adding in the form of "Dry Gas" and "Heet" for decades to remove water contamination from the system? Yes, it does cause water to emulsify in the fuel... but that's the idea, get it to emulsify and pass straight through as the engine runs, NOT to pool in the bottom of tanks and low points in steel lines and cause corrosion. Problems only arise when people park engines for extended periods without making sure the tanks are full of fresh fuel, with NO air space, and with a stabilizer added. The worst thing you can do is run a boat or car in a humid area nearly empty of fuel then park it for months thinking "I'll put all fresh gas in when I use it again." Top off before parking, and add stabilizer (regardless of ethanol content of fuel).
Originally Posted by ctrcbob
It does NOT attract moisture/water. It absorbs moisture/water that is already there and allows it to burn.
Back on the 1980's, I used to go out of my way to a station that sold Gasahol (ethanol) to keep the fuel lines and carburetor clean. Also did the job of Dry Gas in the winter.
Today, there are nearby stations that sell 100% gas. I tried it for a couple weeks. NO DIFFERENCE in fuel economy. E10 also a lot cheaper. (Tried E85 once in my Flex Fuel Mercedes once. - yes, mileage went down).
Fake news!
Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
Originally Posted by maxdustington
I hate it when the government decides the winners and losers.
How do you feel about the federal government setting piloting and maintenance standards for the airliner you are in at thirty nine thousand feet and moving along at five hundred miles an hour? We haven't seen too many aviation accidents like the TWA/United mid-airs over the Grand Canyon and Brooklyn since the government set up the flight control system we have in place today.
Strong regulatory bodies have nothing to do with winners and losers. I work in construction and inspectors can be a pain but, if you are legit you rarely have any issues. Everyone agrees this is the way it should be: tough but fair. Buying the votes of midwestern corn farmers with subsidies is not a regulatory function. Do you follow the NAFTA re negotiations? Our government put our entire auto sector on the line when our economy is tanking to protect rich Quebec dairy farmers. That is what determining winners and losers is.
It does NOT attract moisture/water. It absorbs moisture/water that is already there and allows it to burn.
Back on the 1980's, I used to go out of my way to a station that sold Gasahol (ethanol) to keep the fuel lines and carburetor clean. Also did the job of Dry Gas in the winter.
Today, there are nearby stations that sell 100% gas. I tried it for a couple weeks. NO DIFFERENCE in fuel economy. E10 also a lot cheaper. (Tried E85 once in my Flex Fuel Mercedes once. - yes, mileage went down).
Fake news!
Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
Originally Posted by maxdustington
I hate it when the government decides the winners and losers.
How do you feel about the federal government setting piloting and maintenance standards for the airliner you are in at thirty nine thousand feet and moving along at five hundred miles an hour? We haven't seen too many aviation accidents like the TWA/United mid-airs over the Grand Canyon and Brooklyn since the government set up the flight control system we have in place today.
Strong regulatory bodies have nothing to do with winners and losers. I work in construction and inspectors can be a pain but, if you are legit you rarely have any issues. Everyone agrees this is the way it should be: tough but fair. Buying the votes of midwestern corn farmers with subsidies is not a regulatory function. Do you follow the NAFTA re negotiations? Our government put our entire auto sector on the line when our economy is tanking to protect rich Quebec dairy farmers. That is what determining winners and losers is.
Originally Posted by 440Magnum
I like ethanol in gasoline from an engineering point of view, just not the subsidies since methanol would be even better.
Either methanol or ethanol an excellent octane booster for the cost, and once you've gotten rid of any incompatible materials it keeps the fuel system corrosion-free and spotless. All the hatred is based on misunderstanding. ALL oxygenated fuels don't store well and deteriorate even in sealed tanks, whether it be oxygenated with ethanol, MTBE, or other compounds. Nature of the beast. Anyone who thinks they're improving things buy buying "ethanol free" fuel is kidding themselves, unless they are getting truly non-oxygenated race fuel or aviation fuel. And if ethanol (by itself) were so bad, why is it exactly what people have been adding in the form of "Dry Gas" and "Heet" for decades to remove water contamination from the system? Yes, it does cause water to emulsify in the fuel... but that's the idea, get it to emulsify and pass straight through as the engine runs, NOT to pool in the bottom of tanks and low points in steel lines and cause corrosion. Problems only arise when people park engines for extended periods without making sure the tanks are full of fresh fuel, with NO air space, and with a stabilizer added. The worst thing you can do is run a boat or car in a humid area nearly empty of fuel then park it for months thinking "I'll put all fresh gas in when I use it again." Top off before parking, and add stabilizer (regardless of ethanol content of fuel).
If I want ethanol in my gasoline, I'll put it there. E0 also smells better! You don't need to be an engineer to do the math:
Gasoline = 115 BTU/gal
Ethanol = 76 BTU/gal
I like ethanol in gasoline from an engineering point of view, just not the subsidies since methanol would be even better.
Either methanol or ethanol an excellent octane booster for the cost, and once you've gotten rid of any incompatible materials it keeps the fuel system corrosion-free and spotless. All the hatred is based on misunderstanding. ALL oxygenated fuels don't store well and deteriorate even in sealed tanks, whether it be oxygenated with ethanol, MTBE, or other compounds. Nature of the beast. Anyone who thinks they're improving things buy buying "ethanol free" fuel is kidding themselves, unless they are getting truly non-oxygenated race fuel or aviation fuel. And if ethanol (by itself) were so bad, why is it exactly what people have been adding in the form of "Dry Gas" and "Heet" for decades to remove water contamination from the system? Yes, it does cause water to emulsify in the fuel... but that's the idea, get it to emulsify and pass straight through as the engine runs, NOT to pool in the bottom of tanks and low points in steel lines and cause corrosion. Problems only arise when people park engines for extended periods without making sure the tanks are full of fresh fuel, with NO air space, and with a stabilizer added. The worst thing you can do is run a boat or car in a humid area nearly empty of fuel then park it for months thinking "I'll put all fresh gas in when I use it again." Top off before parking, and add stabilizer (regardless of ethanol content of fuel).
If I want ethanol in my gasoline, I'll put it there. E0 also smells better! You don't need to be an engineer to do the math:
Gasoline = 115 BTU/gal
Ethanol = 76 BTU/gal
They have been using up to 10% ethanol in California for decades. Not an issue. Ethanol mixes freely with water and gasoline both. If you do get water contamination what do you do? Add alcohol. The whining you hear about it ruining this or that sounds like improperly prepared engines for long storage situations.
Originally Posted by Reddy45
Mandates.
Yes.
Mandates.
Yes.
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
I thought marine gasoline was all E0 because owners tend to use them around water. Why in the world would they be using that junk in boat motors?
Its all that's available here.
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
I thought marine gasoline was all E0 because owners tend to use them around water. Why in the world would they be using that junk in boat motors?
Its all that's available here.
Yep, not all marine fuel is E0. Here at the Milwaukee marina it is E10.
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