VW "Leatherette" and DSG transmission

[KCJeep]

Howdy all,

As I posted previously I am looking to update the Lincoln and it has come down to this, a lightly used (ideally) Audi A4 or a new or nearly new well optioned Passat.

So I drove the new Passat GT yesterday and it was very nice and also fun, although it was no Audi. It had two tone leatherette seating surfaces, and I hadn't been in it long (it was 90 degrees outside) and I felt my back getting sticky. Even though it was hot, not thinking real leather (as found in the Audi or the SEL Premium Passat) feels quite the same way, at least it doesn't in my Lincoln. Thoughts or experiences with that? Is leatherette to be avoided?

It also had the DSG transmission, coupled with the VR6 engine. The VR6 was a big improvement power wise and solved what turned me off a bit on other Passats I had driven, not enough power. The salesperson told me DSG stood for "Driver Select Gear" ha ha not. But I had never driven one before, it seemed a little different to me, a tiny bit "herky jerky" for lack of a better description. Normal? My imagination? Something that will break in with some miles? The features on it were really cool but the Audi has them also, I don't know if it's actually the same transmission though.

From what I have been able to find on line, the VR6 and DSG tranny are a very solid combo. The touch screen on the new VW seemed very intuitive and easy to use for non-techy me, more so than the Audi's although I didn't think it was terribly hard either.

Both cars still take VW 502 which is nice, not this new VW 508 I am inherently suspicious of, not being much of a fan of 20 grades in any variation.

Pretty torn between the two, the idea of "new" and a fabulous warranty are alluring and clearly more long term practical. But no car has "wowed" me like the Audi and I have looked. Any input appreciated. Thanks!

 

[HemiHawk]

The Passat GT is a pretty neat ride. I do wish it came with an option for 4motion, but I'm sure with snow tires it will be a tank in the snow (like my GTI with snow tires). The GT with its VR6 is a bit of a dying breed, V6 powered sedan.

I can give some thoughts on the DSG, at least the one in my GTI. I know the DSG in the GTI, Golf R, and Alltrack/Golf wagen are the same (different ratios in the R possibly) so I'll assume its at least very similar in the Passat.

It is a little jerky. Especially in drive. The trans tuning seems to select the next gear very soon. This gives the impression of the engine lugging. Its probably for best fuel economy. The other thing thats easy to notice is there is a little lag when taking off from a red light. I've seen the reason for this described like this - When fully stopped at a red light with your foot pressing decently on the brake, the transmission disengages. There seems to be a pressure point at which this happens. If I'm only on the brake light enough to remain stopped, the RPMs are a bit higher and I feel it tugging, like in a normal auto. If you press a little harder you'll notice RPMs drop. This is essentially the car putting itself in neutral to save the clutches and probably fuel economy. So the trick here is when the light turns green, let off the brake and wait for it to engage then move along. If you jump from brake to gas in normal drive mode you will get some jerking. I am pretty sure this disengagement is disabled in manual and sport transmission modes.

If you didn't, certainly try out the manual shifting. Shifting a DSG will never be like shifting a manual... but its pretty close. It actually selects the gear you ask for, quickly. And lets you hold that gear for some fun. The best part of the DSG is how you can slap it in drive and be lazy like in the case of traffic, or you can use manual mode and wring the engine out. The sport mode is nice, but not tuned optimally I don't think. The only time I would use the sport function is using launch control.

One of the biggest benefits I could see with the choice of the A4 would be the 4motion/quattro. If you don't need that, my preference would probably be the Passat. Neat, fun sounding V'r'6. Great warranty. It may be worth checking on insurance costs with an Audi vs the VW also. When I was looking at an A3 diesel I was shocked how much insurance would cost compared to a VW diesel. I think the Audi's are just more expensive to repair.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Leatherette is a pretty durable material - probably easier to maintain over the years than true leather. My old A4 had leatherette. It wasn't as nice looking as real leather, but it was fine. Both leatherette and leather can make you feel sticky in hot weather, unless you have actively cooled seats.

The reason DSG feels different is that it is closer to a manual transmission (clutch based) than to a traditional torque converter based automatic. This is why you may find it a bit more 'jerky'. That's normal from what I understand.

As far as A4 vs Passat, personally I'd rather have a slightly used CPO A4 - it's a much nicer car, inside and out, IMO.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Isn't the new Passat the big fattened up Americanized NMS? I think the NMS uses a transverse V6, whereas the A4 is still based on the real Passat. The Passat has all the problems, but none of the good aspects of a real VW.

If you were really leaning towards the Passat NMS, you might as well just get an Accord 2.0T or the Camry V6.

Real leather is better than vinyl, unless you're either vegan, or if you were shopping Mercedes-Benz (their MB-Tex is the best pleather/vinyl upholstery ever used in cars). Seriously, MB could very well just license out the MB-Tex to other companies (not even just car companies) and make a fortune off that alone.

Besides, it sounds like you really want the A4 anyway, and are just being tempted by "new" vs "used" car. Just get a CPO A4, or one from Carmax with that extended warranty

 

[KrisZ]

My experience with VW DSG is from my in-laws Jetta TDI. It performed fine, but I would avoid crawling at red lights as that simply slipps the clutches to simulate torque converter operation. Also in very slow moving stop and go traffic, I noticed that in sport mode the tranny would keep the first gear for longer and allow engine braking. In D mode it would constantly shift 1-2, 2-1 and slip the clutches a lot.

 

[Zee09]

I had seen a $350 service fee for the DSG if you are not a DIY guy.

 

[maxdustington]

VR6 POWAH! Definitely a dying breed, get em while they are hot!
Originally Posted by Zee09
I had seen a $350 service fee for the DSG if you are not a DIY guy.
1. VW 2. VR6. OP probably knows he's in for increased maintenance costs.

You forgot to reccommend that OP gets a nice Japanese/Korean car and skip the over engineered VW?
Originally Posted by Zee09
I had seen a $350 service fee for the DSG if you are not a DIY guy, you should probably be like every old man on this board and get an RELIABLE imported appliance car
Fixed it for you.

 

[HemiHawk]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
VR6 POWAH! Definitely a dying breed, get em while they are hot!
Originally Posted by Zee09
I had seen a $350 service fee for the DSG if you are not a DIY guy.
1. VW 2. VR6. OP probably knows he's in for increased maintenance costs.

You forgot to reccommend that OP gets a nice Japanese/Korean car and skip the over engineered VW?
Originally Posted by Zee09
I had seen a $350 service fee for the DSG if you are not a DIY guy, you should probably be like every old man on this board and get an RELIABLE imported appliance car
Fixed it for you.


What Zee09 stated was a fact... servicing the DSG costs more. Its not irrelevant to the conversation. I considered it when looking at VW. In the end the $400ish cost (if done at the dealer) over 40k miles is justifiable. But it could be worth mentioning so if someone doesn't know they don't flip their lid at 40k miles that they need to spend the $400.

 

[KrisZ]

$400 every 40k for the DSG service works out to be about the same as a timing belt change for a Honda or Acura V6 done every 100k which is around $1k at the dealer. I don't recall people bringing this up whenever someone wants to purchase a Honda or Acura, why is it so bad for VW then, that people need to be warned about?

 

[supton]

Pretty sure TB costs are always brought up. At least they were a few years ago when they were more common.

Is VW done using TB's? Also, did they fix the VR6? Decade or two ago they were known for expensive timing chain replacement.

 

[HemiHawk]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
$400 every 40k for the DSG service works out to be about the same as a timing belt change for a Honda or Acura V6 done every 100k which is around $1k at the dealer. I don't recall people bringing this up whenever someone wants to purchase a Honda or Acura, why is it so bad for VW then, that people need to be warned about?


In this scenario if I had to guess, its because people expect cars to need servicing at 100k miles, if they keep them that long. The list is probably long of the maintenance items a vehicle may need. Usually no one points out "At 100k miles you'll need to service your diffs" its kind of understood if the car lasts that long. Of course I agree with what your saving, spread out over time the costs are equal. Its the timing and how it appears on the surface that get most people. A relatively "major" service at 40k miles startles some people. Again for me the $400 (probably less when I do it myself) isn't that bad in the scope of things, especially for what the DSG offers over a typical automatic. But it always comes up when talking DSG.

 

[KrisZ]

I would accept that argument if we were discussing this on some other forum. This forum attracts people that understand vehicle maintenance more than the general public.

 

[Zee09]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
I would accept that argument if we were discussing this on some other forum. This forum attracts people that understand vehicle maintenance more than the general public.


True but, I guarantee you some folks didn't know about the trans service.
And many freak if an oil filter is over $4
Full disclosure.
Plus you ain't gonna throw some bargain basement oil in one either.

 

[dlundblad]

You're suspicious of VW508... Nooooooooo!

What would have leatherette anyways? Not sure what dad's A4 has, but the interior looks awesome aside from the headliner.

 

[Cujet]

Folks here know I've had my fill with VW products and the lack of reliability.

However, I absolutely love driving the DSG transmission cars. A well connected automatic, for sure. Any operational weirdness can be addressed by the dealer recalibration of the transmission. Over the time I owned mine, it was recalibrated a couple times (early on after a valve body failure) and worked amazingly after that

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by supton
Pretty sure TB costs are always brought up. At least they were a few years ago when they were more common.

Is VW done using TB's? Also, did they fix the VR6? Decade or two ago they were known for expensive timing chain replacement.

TB costs are never brought up by Toyota or Honda owners because those are perfect vehicles, minus non-existent brakes, ridiculously expensive spark plugs changes (if not DIY, if DIY day of your life is gone), dancing mirrors when pump up music, lights that are more candles etc.
VW had tensioner issue on VR6 in 2006-2007, they fixed sometimes in 2007.
I have Toyota and regular maintenance is actually more expensive then my previous vehicle, which was BMW X5 35d.
But, I needed van, and in that aspect it is good, but ONLY in that.

 

[KCJeep]

Checked with the insurance agent and 6 month costs are only 25 bucks difference (Audi) nothing of note.

The Passat I looked at had leatherette, the Audi's don't. Quattro is not really needed around here weather wise, but was amazing to drive even on dry pavement car just stuck to the road. And I have had something 4wd/Awd so long not relishing giving that up.

Really torn on spending that much on a "used" car when I can have a nice new one for the same money. I like the Audi better, but no warranty and with miles on it already won't last me as long. Gridlocked.

I already told the VW folks I was going to come back and drive it again. Thank you all for helping me with the characteristics of the DSG my next drive should be less perplexing. I could feel the difference but wasn't sure if something was wrong or what.

 

[skyactiv]

My wife has a 2015 Audi A4 and I drive a 2013 VW GTI 2 door. Both cars are sticks. Her car has leather and mine has cloth seats. I prefer the feel of my cloth seats.
Her car is definitely better on a road trip. Less road, wind noise and feels more planted. BUT, she drives my car quite often when she travels for work to keep miles off her car
since I'm 7 miles from my employer. If your only reason for wanting the Audi over the VW is the interior, I would rethink that. I'd probably choose the Passat, it's a rocket ship.

 

[Zee09]

V-Tex
I got a long ride in a new E Class the other day and I found the car a plastic mess.
Very unimpressive and cheap looking. I thought VW did a better job.

The E Class looked sharp outside but it was noisy and rode like a bucket of bolts
I'm waiting to buy an Atlas...looking for the ideal one to pop up.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Zee09
V-Tex
I got a long ride in a new E Class the other day and I found the car a plastic mess.
Very unimpressive and cheap looking. I thought VW did a better job.

The E Class looked sharp outside but it was noisy and rode like a bucket of bolts
I'm waiting to buy an Atlas...looking for the ideal one to pop up.

I was looking Atlas. VR6 feels really underpowered there. This engine in Sienna actually feels much more powerful then VR6.
Make sure you try Atlas for a longer time. I went back 5 times for longer drives.