Redline D6 ATF substituting for Toyota WS

P

Patrick0525

Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
691
Location
PA
I am planning to get the Toyota Venza ATF drain/
fill at the dealer and bring my D6. What has been the forum experience with D6?

Initially ATF changed @40k mi and refilled with WS I do not tow.
 
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I run D6 in my wife's 2014 Rav4 and have added a trans cooler since I tow a small 14 ft boat. I did a 95% flush of D6. it took 11 qts to do it from the crappy worthless micro trans cooler, the "hockey puck".

I myself always add 1 qt of Redline Racing and one qt Redline Racing low viscosity ATF (Type-F basically) to reduce the slip agents in D6 because I think it has too much agent for my liking.

Runs great and will last far longer then that HORRIBLE WS junk that was all burnt at 21,400 miles that I drained out of my wife's Rav4. I have run D6 in Honda's and Hyundai's with great results....All with my cocktail of Type-F Redline to reduce the slip agents by 20%.


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Redline D6 is good stuff
thumbsup2.gif
 
How do I make this cocktail? My system holds 10-11qts.
Please be explicit. Thank you in advance.
 
Originally Posted by Mainia

Runs great and will last far longer then that HORRIBLE WS junk that was all burnt at 21,400 miles that I drained out of my wife's Rav4.

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I have to second that WS is is the worst factory-fill ATF I have ever encountered. I have seen it wear out in multiple vehicles WAY before it should, and in normal every-day use, not severe service.
 
I had RL D6 on my Lexus 2011 ES. I strongly discourage using RL because in hot weather the transmission flared and didn't like the RPM change along with the gear change.
All my vehicles I am extremely meticulous on gear vs RPM change and the flair didn't sit well w/ me. Dumped it and went back to WS and no more flares.

Your choice, maybe it works for you, but it didn't on my 6 speed
 
I put D4 in my 2005 Tacoma before the D6 came out. At the time, D$ was considered ok for WS. Since D6 came out, it is now the WS spec and D4 is for T-IV fluid. I ended up running it for a couple years, approx 50k miles, with no issues whatsoever.
 
Originally Posted by dblshock
WS junk? really? seems they have the best power trains on earth.



With the crap cheap price point oil in it. WS IF and I mean IF it has a good external trans cooler like their trucks and the new Rav4 Adventure with the towing package , WS won't fall on it's face right away. WS is a semi synthetic so it can't take any heat were most car's don't have trans coolers and all Rav4's up until last years Rav4 Adventure has received.

Toyota, while making very reliable cars, get an A+ on "skimping here and there" that the average person doesn't catch. Horrible anti-corrosion plating on all nuts and bolts. Yugo quality. (let's save money here they say in the boardroom) High iron sub frames and horrible quality sub frame paint. I live in Minnesota and you look under any 2014 Toyota/Lexus and later you see rust on bolts /sub frames. You look under any Honda, Hyundai, Audi, and VW, you see no rust. I have a relative that is a mechanic at a Lexus dealer and they find cancerous rust on all cars/SUV starting at 4 years old.

Our 2014 Rav4's CV joint axle stub that goes through front and rear wheel bearings and hubs the extend shaft with the threads extending past the large axle bolt are all cancer rusted where the threads are degrading to the point where they are losing a defined thread. They are all rounded of threads. If I pulled the nut, the threads that are left would all gauly up the nut threads. Pathetic really. All the suspension bolts have the same cancer rust. My daughters 2005 Honda civic has almost zero rust on the suspension bolts and sub frame, sub frame has just a hair more rust then my wife's new Rav4. "Of course" Toyota and Lexus are smart enough to use good galvanizing and dip methods for body panels that you SEE. The most expensive Rav4 $40,000 has no door lock or window switch lighting LED's so you have a "black door" at night when you want to open a window or unlock a door. HEA...." turn the dome light on, so I can unlock my door!!!!" My 1980 VW Rabbit had this, and every car I own since had this switch lighting.

Now for some reason Toyota puts in great proprietary Mobil 1 engine oil. For this I am clapping my hands.

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So Patrick PMed me on how to cocktail in the Redline Type-F racing oil. And by the way this is done by some over on the Honda Odyssey forums as a cheat to make the badly designed older trams last longer. (slip means heat and added wear). I don't know if Patrick trans is a dipstickless trans , if so Patrick go to the Rav4 form here and read all the trans change posts I and others have posted. There is a very specific way to get the right level in these trans with no dipstick. Spend an hour plus looking at the different links that you can hopscotch to and from.

https://www.rav4world.com/forums/126-4-4-mechanical/283761-changing-fluid-rav4-u760-transaxle.html


First off let me say I owned an Audi hobby repair shop for 10 years, and use to build motors for people, so I do know cars. I also have a direct connection with the "God Father " of the Allison automatic transmission who has retired from Allison and has his own oil testing firm that I use at my work and home. They use this "cocktailing" for testing and also for in service special cases that need trans fluid alterations. He did say, you only want to use the same brand Type-F fluid from the same manufacture so the add-packs and base oils are close to the same. He has no issue with doing this. I talked to him about this years after doing the cocktailing and others have with no problems, and he backed up the method we all were using. I have 2 qts of each below in my daughters ATF Honda civic to stop the slipping of MaxLife I put in, with good results. Hers slipped a bit much from 2-3rd and this fixed it. I did mix brands here. Still good after 3 years hard use by here lead foot.


Redline Racing (Type-F)

https://www.redlineoil.com/racing-atf-type-f

and

Redline Racing low viscosity (Type-F)

https://www.redlineoil.com/lightweight-racing-atf


So you will see how I did it and other have in the Rav4 forum link above. The key here is to dump the pan first, and if this is your first dump and filter buy a new filter, then after this filter you will never need to change the filter again since it is a rock catcher 100 micron and higher filter. You are just changing it because the first clutch pack wear in is in that filter. Then attach the pan and refill the trans with D6 and get a long hose and attach it to the exit trans line if that car has a "hockey puck trans cooler" or a radiator cooler. With a bucket and the hose right next to you by the drivers seat start the engine and pump out the old crap WS that is left in the torque converter. Once you here the trans pump sucking air kill the car, Refill more D6 and start the car to pump out more until you see cleaner oil. Once you see redder clean oil you know that will be your last fill after yo keep pumping out your last pan full. On the last fill you use 1 qt racing and one qt lightweight racing Redline that will get you close enough to the D6 viscosity. Then you have to go through the leveling process if it is a dipstick or a leveling temp process the dipstickless version has to go through. Good luck.

And a warning on the dipstickless version, people with brand new cars and trucks have had slip issues when the temps got very low (below zero) because Toyota did not fill the trans enough at the factory and went back and they added some more fluid,as I had to. I was VERY lucky I was in the car when we just started out on the first cold night after going to a friends house for the night. it slipped on my wifes Rav4 right after I did the trans a week before. I said has it every slipped before ...she said no. I said pull over and rev the car to 1,800 rpm and let it warm up the trans fluid so it could expand in volume. That next day I added another qt and it has never slipped again. Again even Toyota can't get a percentage of their new cars and trucks trans level filled right, so just be aware of cold slip is a level issue and it happens to even Toyota, Dipstickless trans are BS.

.
 
I have owned many vehicles incl. this wallet killer GLE350 and there is no transmission that shifts and feels like a Aisin.
There is no vehicle which is more reliable than a Toyo, period. Yes there are shortfalls in every manufacturer incl. Toyo but they are byfar the best bang for the buck.

To say WS is a semi-syn and not up to mark, then pl. publish your credentials and how you have proved that point.
 
Originally Posted by MaximaGuy
I have owned many vehicles incl. this wallet killer GLE350 and there is no transmission that shifts and feels like a Aisin.
There is no vehicle which is more reliable than a Toyo, period. Yes there are shortfalls in every manufacturer incl. Toyo but they are byfar the best bang for the buck.

To say WS is a semi-syn and not up to mark, then pl. publish your credentials and how you have proved that point.


Nope, I am not going to waste my time with that sub standard crap cheap price point WS oil to satisfy your fanboyism for WS. What I dumped out of my Rav4 at 21,400 miles was total toasted WS. I have changed over 40 ATF cars and only seen that toasted of ATF about 4 times in high mileage Audis. You run that garbage oil, go right ahead. Any ATF pumper with no cooler needs a group 5 or minimum group 4 ATF, not the group 2/3 WS is. YOU have an external cooler, you can run WS, since the heat won't kill it right away in it's early life.. Cheap crap, but you can run it.

I know Toyota's are very reliable, that why I bought it, but I sure found out WHERE they skimp and it all is under the radar where average people can't see it. They all do some of it because of cost, but Toyota you can just blatantly see their deep skimping with your own eyes plain as day, and WS is one of them.

Your in TX , you have no clue on how rusty the skimping on metallurgy Toyota/Lexus has here in Minnesota. It's pathetic that they skimp so badly with it. They last ,but get your cutting torch out to change anything under the car after 4 years plus. Not with a Honda , Hyundai, Audi and VW.

If you did not like Redline my next choice would be Amsoil SS ATF.
 
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Mainia Thanks. 1 qt Racing +1 qt Racing Lightweight + remainder D6. My transmission is dipstickless. The Toyota dealer is the one doing trans drain/fill.
 
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Originally Posted by Mainia


Your in TX , you have no clue on how rusty the skimping on metallurgy Toyota/Lexus has here in Minnesota. It's pathetic that they skimp so badly with it. They last ,but get your cutting torch out to change anything under the car after 4 years plus. Not with a Honda , Hyundai, Audi and VW.

If you did not like Redline my next choice would be Amsoil SS ATF.


Very true. I see the undersides of Canadian and northern Toyota/Lexus as a moderator and frequent user at make forums. 10 year old Toyotas are worse than my 30 year old Audi, which spent the first 15 years in northern New England. Wasn't there a big Toyota recall a few years ago for Tacoma frames rusting through?

I am a big Oyota fan, and honestly will probably never buy another non-Toyota/Lexus vehicl. But let's be honest about the faults. WS is indeed one of them, as well as the well known rust problems.
 
I'm doing a WS OCI as we speak on my T4R, had a aftermarket cooler hose dripping and because of no trans dipstick (there's a head scratcher) unable to see how much was lost...anyway, after 12 winters here in WI. the frame is a long long way from ruined, bolts are still workable with a shot of PB Blaster.
 
Quote
He did say, you only want to use the same brand Type-F fluid from the same manufacture so the add-packs and base oils are close to the same. He has no issue with doing this.


Sounds like another so-called expert who knows little to nothing about formulation, PI packages, and their suppliers.

Messing with the dynamic friction coefficients of ATFs' can be disadvantageous for transmission life..

Use type "F" ATF only for modified racing transmission such as the TH350 and TH400 and PowerGlide, and older specific Ford transmissions.

Originally Posted by Molekule
The clutch disc material of Automatic Transmissions, and other wet clutch applications, are made of porous friction materials which are bonded to steel core plates.

Friction materials may include cellulose, carbon fiber, Aramids, fiberglass, or a combination of materials (composites).

Today, composites rule.

Note: Sintered metal composites may be found in HDD applications.

This material must exhibit:

1.) Mu(o), low speed dynamic coefficient; affected by friction material ingredients and ATF additives adsorption

2.) Mu(i), initial dynamic coefficient at high speed; affected by hydrodynamic effects/porosity/compression/roughness.




For some more scientific/engineering background see:

SAE 902148: Physical and Chemical Properties of a Typical Automatic Transmission Fluid


and,

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/automatic-transmissions-study/
 
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Originally Posted by Patrick0525
I am planning to get the Toyota Venza ATF drain/
fill at the dealer and bring my D6. What has been the forum experience with D6?

Initially ATF changed @40k mi and refilled with WS I do not tow.



One can use Amsoil ATL, Redline D6, or MaxLife ATF as LV replacements.
 
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