Here's my latest report from BlackStone. Since my last report I changed out 2 MotorGuard filters and one full flow filter requiring 3 quarts top up. I ran out of 5W20 and ended up adding 1 qrt of Rotella T4 15W40 and 2 quarts of Mobil 1 5W30 (note rise in viscosity) . I had a particle count done as well to check the cleanliness of the oil as compared to the % insolubles. The bypass filters stop flowing oil after 2000-2500 miles indicating there is still a lot of debris in the oil and the particle count confirms this. The engine is running great and fuel mileage has slowly increased from 13 to 16 mpg hwy and from 11 to 13 city. All in all very happy with the results.
Mobil 1 5W20, 25000 miles, 2000 Ford V10 Triton
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Sorry that's imperial mpg, US mpg is 10.8 city and 13 hwy.
Yea.... in my honest opinion, that crazy random oil top off and filter change basically made these results rather pointless. I mean, can't say much other then, the engine didn't blow, so I guess that's a job well done.
In regards to the actual UOA results... pointless with the top off oil mixing it all up.
In regards to the actual UOA results... pointless with the top off oil mixing it all up.
I want to add that, since the oil filters clearly cleaned up the oil and removed lots of metal particles, doesn't this clearly show that in reality, the engine could be wearing BADLY but since the oil filters are cleaning it all up, it will never show up in the UOA results unless the filters clog up, go into bypass and then you sample after a good amount of miles to reveal the actual engine wear.
Originally Posted by Artem
I want to add that, since the oil filters clearly cleaned up the oil and removed lots of metal particles, doesn't this clearly show that in reality, the engine could be wearing BADLY but since the oil filters are cleaning it all up, it will never show up in the UOA results unless the filters clog up, go into bypass and then you sample after a good amount of miles to reveal the actual engine wear.
I'm looking forward to reading the replies on this question.
If I had to guess, the micron amount that is measured in a oil sample is quite a bit smaller than what a filter will catch but that is just a guess?
I assume, if you suspect your engine is shedding metal at a feverish rate, the only way to really tell would be to tear into the filter and have a look at the pleats?
I want to add that, since the oil filters clearly cleaned up the oil and removed lots of metal particles, doesn't this clearly show that in reality, the engine could be wearing BADLY but since the oil filters are cleaning it all up, it will never show up in the UOA results unless the filters clog up, go into bypass and then you sample after a good amount of miles to reveal the actual engine wear.
I'm looking forward to reading the replies on this question.
If I had to guess, the micron amount that is measured in a oil sample is quite a bit smaller than what a filter will catch but that is just a guess?
I assume, if you suspect your engine is shedding metal at a feverish rate, the only way to really tell would be to tear into the filter and have a look at the pleats?
Originally Posted by Artem
I want to add that, since the oil filters clearly cleaned up the oil and removed lots of metal particles, doesn't this clearly show that in reality, the engine could be wearing BADLY but since the oil filters are cleaning it all up, it will never show up in the UOA results unless the filters clog up, go into bypass and then you sample after a good amount of miles to reveal the actual engine wear.
You might have a point, but in my experience you can never mask an engine that starts making metal. It doesn't matter how good your filtration is, it's going to show up in the oil analysis and in the filters themselves. When I change filters I cut open the full flows and inspect them as well as every bypass change.
I want to add that, since the oil filters clearly cleaned up the oil and removed lots of metal particles, doesn't this clearly show that in reality, the engine could be wearing BADLY but since the oil filters are cleaning it all up, it will never show up in the UOA results unless the filters clog up, go into bypass and then you sample after a good amount of miles to reveal the actual engine wear.
You might have a point, but in my experience you can never mask an engine that starts making metal. It doesn't matter how good your filtration is, it's going to show up in the oil analysis and in the filters themselves. When I change filters I cut open the full flows and inspect them as well as every bypass change.
Originally Posted by Artem
Yea.... in my honest opinion, that crazy random oil top off and filter change basically made these results rather pointless. I mean, can't say much other then, the engine didn't blow, so I guess that's a job well done.
In regards to the actual UOA results... pointless with the top off oil mixing it all up.
I concur.
Yea.... in my honest opinion, that crazy random oil top off and filter change basically made these results rather pointless. I mean, can't say much other then, the engine didn't blow, so I guess that's a job well done.
In regards to the actual UOA results... pointless with the top off oil mixing it all up.
I concur.
Originally Posted by CT8
How much oil does the bypass filters add and then you added 3 qts make up oil?
The bypass filter hold 1 qrt of oil, so after it's changed I add 1 qrt. I change the bypass filter when it no longer flows adequate oil to keep the filter housing warm after extended trips usually 2000-2500 miles. The full flow filter is changed every 10,000 miles and requires 3/4-1 qrt, so 2 bypass filters and 1 full flow equal 3 qrts.
How much oil does the bypass filters add and then you added 3 qts make up oil?
The bypass filter hold 1 qrt of oil, so after it's changed I add 1 qrt. I change the bypass filter when it no longer flows adequate oil to keep the filter housing warm after extended trips usually 2000-2500 miles. The full flow filter is changed every 10,000 miles and requires 3/4-1 qrt, so 2 bypass filters and 1 full flow equal 3 qrts.
Originally Posted by tcp71
They bypass filter and makeup oil really remove the ability to judge the original oil or wear conditions. What is the micron rating of the bypass filter?
There is no micron rating for this filter that I'm aware of and is very similar to a Frantz. Some claim it will clean the oil down to 1-2 microns, but there is no data to confirm this. I thought I would try this system on this engine I bought as it was a great candidate for something like this. The truck was in very rough shape, had sat the 7 years, oil had 15000 miles on it and from what the owner told me had it changed usually every 20,000 miles of so at a local jiffy lube. Anyway he claimed he only ran Mobil 1 5W20 and that's what he used since new. Well from the used oil analysis one can clearly see that it wasn't mobil 1, but a generic oil they used and told him he was getting Mobil 1. Long story short it was sludged up and needed to be cleaned with either frequent oil changes or using my old MotorGuard to see what that would do. I've chosen the old MotorGuard to see what would happen to the oil after an extended period of time. The oil is being slowly changed as it's driven 10,000 miles and 7 qrts, so that's a full oil change there. Once this engine is cleaned up and no longer plugging the bypass filter so quickly I hope to reduce the oil use down from 7 quarts in 10,000 miles to 3 qrts every 10,000 miles. It will depend on the engine and the oil cleanliness for this to happen.
They bypass filter and makeup oil really remove the ability to judge the original oil or wear conditions. What is the micron rating of the bypass filter?
There is no micron rating for this filter that I'm aware of and is very similar to a Frantz. Some claim it will clean the oil down to 1-2 microns, but there is no data to confirm this. I thought I would try this system on this engine I bought as it was a great candidate for something like this. The truck was in very rough shape, had sat the 7 years, oil had 15000 miles on it and from what the owner told me had it changed usually every 20,000 miles of so at a local jiffy lube. Anyway he claimed he only ran Mobil 1 5W20 and that's what he used since new. Well from the used oil analysis one can clearly see that it wasn't mobil 1, but a generic oil they used and told him he was getting Mobil 1. Long story short it was sludged up and needed to be cleaned with either frequent oil changes or using my old MotorGuard to see what that would do. I've chosen the old MotorGuard to see what would happen to the oil after an extended period of time. The oil is being slowly changed as it's driven 10,000 miles and 7 qrts, so that's a full oil change there. Once this engine is cleaned up and no longer plugging the bypass filter so quickly I hope to reduce the oil use down from 7 quarts in 10,000 miles to 3 qrts every 10,000 miles. It will depend on the engine and the oil cleanliness for this to happen.
I forgot to mention the fuel mileage increase as well. It's got nothing to do with the bypass filter, but more to do with the maintenance I've done to the engine and the many mountain road trips both empty and towing trailers. Since I put it back on the road I've replaced the following:
Air Filter
MAF sensor
Filter housing (Guy drilled holes in it so it would get hot engine bay air):
02 sensor
Fuel pump, fuel filter
Air Filter
MAF sensor
Filter housing (Guy drilled holes in it so it would get hot engine bay air):
02 sensor
Fuel pump, fuel filter
With the top offs, filtration, different viscosities, brands, and additive packages. The oil itself seems in good condition. If the bypass is clogging with so much frequency and I suspect this V-10 was slugged in good order. Frequent changes are likely helping but it will take a while to clean.
Patman
Staff member
I have also heard that bypass filtration is good down to about 1 or 2 microns. Think about it, why would anyone bother to install such a system if it was only going to filter out particles of the same size as a regular oil filter? So if in fact it's filtering out particles this small, I'm afraid it probably makes any UOA results pretty much worthless, other than looking at the condition of the oil itself after all that time (but even then, with that much top up and with different oils used, what did we learn here?)
Originally Posted by dave1251
With the top offs, filtration, different viscosities, brands, and additive packages. The oil itself seems in good condition. If the bypass is clogging with so much frequency and I suspect this V-10 was slugged in good order. Frequent changes are likely helping but it will take a while to clean.
True, I never pulled the valve covers, but there was a layer of milky brown sludge on the oil fill cap, so I knew it wasn't good. I'm not sure how long it's going to take to clean this one up, but it's slowly improving.
With the top offs, filtration, different viscosities, brands, and additive packages. The oil itself seems in good condition. If the bypass is clogging with so much frequency and I suspect this V-10 was slugged in good order. Frequent changes are likely helping but it will take a while to clean.
True, I never pulled the valve covers, but there was a layer of milky brown sludge on the oil fill cap, so I knew it wasn't good. I'm not sure how long it's going to take to clean this one up, but it's slowly improving.
Originally Posted by Patman
I have also heard that bypass filtration is good down to about 1 or 2 microns. Think about it, why would anyone bother to install such a system if it was only going to filter out particles of the same size as a regular oil filter? So if in fact it's filtering out particles this small, I'm afraid it probably makes any UOA results pretty much worthless, other than looking at the condition of the oil itself after all that time (but even then, with that much top up and with different oils used, what did we learn here?)
From this UOA I learned that:
1. I don't have to change the oil and can continue using it. (Next UOA in 10,000 miles)
2. Oil is still dirty.
3. The TBN has improved.
4. Wear metals have decreased,
5. Insolubles have decreased.
6. Fuel % has decreased.
7. Viscosity has increased. (Added 1 qrt 15W40)
8. If you take your car to Jiffy Lube, make sure your getting what you paid for.
Contrary to popular belief, you can't filter out the wear metals with a bypass filter, they will continue to increase over time. The only reason that the wear metals have started to decrease on this engine is due to the 2000-2500 miles bypass filter changes. Sump is 6-7 qrts and the replaced oil is 7 qrts in the 10,000 miles that I have owned it. Lastly I can confirm the reason my bypass filters are plugging up in 2000-2500 miles is because the engine oil is still dirty. I'll take another sample in 10,000 miles with a particle count to confirm whether or not the oil cleanliness has improved, I'll know from the frequency of the bypass filter changes.
I have also heard that bypass filtration is good down to about 1 or 2 microns. Think about it, why would anyone bother to install such a system if it was only going to filter out particles of the same size as a regular oil filter? So if in fact it's filtering out particles this small, I'm afraid it probably makes any UOA results pretty much worthless, other than looking at the condition of the oil itself after all that time (but even then, with that much top up and with different oils used, what did we learn here?)
From this UOA I learned that:
1. I don't have to change the oil and can continue using it. (Next UOA in 10,000 miles)
2. Oil is still dirty.
3. The TBN has improved.
4. Wear metals have decreased,
5. Insolubles have decreased.
6. Fuel % has decreased.
7. Viscosity has increased. (Added 1 qrt 15W40)
8. If you take your car to Jiffy Lube, make sure your getting what you paid for.
Contrary to popular belief, you can't filter out the wear metals with a bypass filter, they will continue to increase over time. The only reason that the wear metals have started to decrease on this engine is due to the 2000-2500 miles bypass filter changes. Sump is 6-7 qrts and the replaced oil is 7 qrts in the 10,000 miles that I have owned it. Lastly I can confirm the reason my bypass filters are plugging up in 2000-2500 miles is because the engine oil is still dirty. I'll take another sample in 10,000 miles with a particle count to confirm whether or not the oil cleanliness has improved, I'll know from the frequency of the bypass filter changes.
At that distance you could save money and time by using either an Amsoil filter(25k miles/1 year) or a Fram Ultra (20k miles).
Interesting results, wasn't this a neglected engine?
Interesting results, wasn't this a neglected engine?
Originally Posted by A310
Originally Posted by Patman
I have also heard that bypass filtration is good down to about 1 or 2 microns. Think about it, why would anyone bother to install such a system if it was only going to filter out particles of the same size as a regular oil filter? So if in fact it's filtering out particles this small, I'm afraid it probably makes any UOA results pretty much worthless, other than looking at the condition of the oil itself after all that time (but even then, with that much top up and with different oils used, what did we learn here?)
From this UOA I learned that:
1. I don't have to change the oil and can continue using it. (Next UOA in 10,000 miles)
2. Oil is still dirty.
3. The TBN has improved.
4. Wear metals have decreased,
5. Insolubles have decreased.
6. Fuel % has decreased.
7. Viscosity has increased. (Added 1 qrt 15W40)
8. If you take your car to Jiffy Lube, make sure your getting what you paid for.
Contrary to popular belief, you can't filter out the wear metals with a bypass filter, they will continue to increase over time. The only reason that the wear metals have started to decrease on this engine is due to the 2000-2500 miles bypass filter changes. Sump is 6-7 qrts and the replaced oil is 7 qrts in the 10,000 miles that I have owned it. Lastly I can confirm the reason my bypass filters are plugging up in 2000-2500 miles is because the engine oil is still dirty. I'll take another sample in 10,000 miles with a particle count to confirm whether or not the oil cleanliness has improved, I'll know from the frequency of the bypass filter changes.
Thank You sir for this UOA and all your hard work. I am learning a lot from you
Originally Posted by Patman
I have also heard that bypass filtration is good down to about 1 or 2 microns. Think about it, why would anyone bother to install such a system if it was only going to filter out particles of the same size as a regular oil filter? So if in fact it's filtering out particles this small, I'm afraid it probably makes any UOA results pretty much worthless, other than looking at the condition of the oil itself after all that time (but even then, with that much top up and with different oils used, what did we learn here?)
From this UOA I learned that:
1. I don't have to change the oil and can continue using it. (Next UOA in 10,000 miles)
2. Oil is still dirty.
3. The TBN has improved.
4. Wear metals have decreased,
5. Insolubles have decreased.
6. Fuel % has decreased.
7. Viscosity has increased. (Added 1 qrt 15W40)
8. If you take your car to Jiffy Lube, make sure your getting what you paid for.
Contrary to popular belief, you can't filter out the wear metals with a bypass filter, they will continue to increase over time. The only reason that the wear metals have started to decrease on this engine is due to the 2000-2500 miles bypass filter changes. Sump is 6-7 qrts and the replaced oil is 7 qrts in the 10,000 miles that I have owned it. Lastly I can confirm the reason my bypass filters are plugging up in 2000-2500 miles is because the engine oil is still dirty. I'll take another sample in 10,000 miles with a particle count to confirm whether or not the oil cleanliness has improved, I'll know from the frequency of the bypass filter changes.
Thank You sir for this UOA and all your hard work. I am learning a lot from you
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