Schaeffers 9000 plus Moly EP #132

[nastyc5]

Hey there folks. I just ordered some Schaeffers 9000 5W50 for my LS3 Corvette that I'm currently modifying and will be seeing track time, hence the 50 weight oil. Anyway I also threw in a bottle of Moly EP in the order. My question is whether that will be overkill since I'll already be using the 9000 full syn oil? I dont want to go thicker than the 5W50 and I heard the Moly EP thickens some oils. I am looking for max protection under sustained loads (high rpms) and higher temps (track conditions).

Car has 87k miles, runs like a top and I have been using LiquiMoly 5W40 with Ceratec before now switching to Schaeffer's.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[nastyc5]

Hey there folks. I just ordered some Schaeffers 9000 5W50 for my LS3 Corvette that I'm currently modifying and will be seeing track time, hence the 50 weight oil. Anyway I also threw in a bottle of Moly EP in the order. My question is whether that will be overkill since I'll already be using the 9000 full syn oil? I dont want to go thicker than the 5W50 and I heard the Moly EP thickens some oils. I am looking for max protection under sustained loads (high rpms) and higher temps (track conditions).

Car has 87k miles, runs like a top and I have been using LiquiMoly 5W40 with Ceratec before now switching to Schaeffer's.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[demarpaint]

Unless you have some sort of problem, like worn rings, valve guides, bearings, etc. I'd pass on the #132. It is a great product, but it will thicken your oil, which might not be beneficial in a problem free engine that "runs like a top." The 5W50 by itself should be fine.

 

[nastyc5]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
Unless you have some sort of problem, like worn rings, valve guides, bearings, etc. I'd pass on the #132. It is a great product, but it will thicken your oil, which might not be beneficial in a problem free engine that "runs like a top." The 5W50 by itself should be fine.


I figured. Thanks. Guess I can always use the Moly EP in my other cars that may utilize it better.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by nastyc5
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Unless you have some sort of problem, like worn rings, valve guides, bearings, etc. I'd pass on the #132. It is a great product, but it will thicken your oil, which might not be beneficial in a problem free engine that "runs like a top." The 5W50 by itself should be fine.


I figured. Thanks. Guess I can always use the Moly EP in my other cars that may utilize it better.


That's what I'd do, use it on something that really needs it.

 

[racin4ds]

I don't think the extra moly will hurt anything, it might be wasteful but won't cause any harm. Those LS motors need all the help they can get when you run em hard anyway...

 

[oil_film_movies]

Agreeing that Moly EP #132 added in is likely more than needed here, even with the hard driving, since you're already running a 5w50 GroupIII+PAO oil with lots of additives.

Originally Posted by nastyc5
Car has 87k miles, runs like a top and I have been using LiquiMoly 5W40 with Ceratec before now switching to Schaeffer's.
Ceratec was a good choice, being only moly+HBN (hexagonal boron nitride) without a lot of other chemicals to possibly interfere with an already optimized LiquiMoly additive package. You could race with that too of course. Lots of protection.

My 1st choice for a raced Corvette if you want to pull out all the stops would be to use a full PAO+ester (little to no GroupIII), and Ravenol VST (or VSI) SAE 5W-40 comes to mind as arguably the best on the planet in that category. They throw tungsten and moly in to keep boundary conditions safe too. Star polymers for their USVO treatment are very shear stable.

Also consider using what I think is the best Corvette filter: http://www.fram.com/media/1075/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4287025/New_FRAM_Racing_Filters_releas

 

[nastyc5]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Agreeing that Moly EP #132 added in is likely more than needed here, even with the hard driving, since you're already running a 5w50 GroupIII+PAO oil with lots of additives.

Originally Posted by nastyc5
Car has 87k miles, runs like a top and I have been using LiquiMoly 5W40 with Ceratec before now switching to Schaeffer's.
Ceratec was a good choice, being only moly+HBN (hexagonal boron nitride) without a lot of other chemicals to possibly interfere with an already optimized LiquiMoly additive package. You could race with that too of course. Lots of protection.

My 1st choice for a raced Corvette if you want to pull out all the stops would be to use a full PAO+ester (little to no GroupIII), and Ravenol VST (or VSI) SAE 5W-40 comes to mind as arguably the best on the planet in that category. They throw tungsten and moly in to keep boundary conditions safe too. Star polymers for their USVO treatment are very shear stable.

Also consider using what I think is the best Corvette filter: http://www.fram.com/media/1075/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4287025/New_FRAM_Racing_Filters_releas


Thanks. I'm just starting to race my C6. With my C5 I only used Redline but I wanted to try Schaeffer's after hearing good things about it. I'm gonna look at your suggestions as well. I appreciate the info.

 

[nastyc5]

Originally Posted by racin4ds
I don't think the extra moly will hurt anything, it might be wasteful but won't cause any harm. Those LS motors need all the help they can get when you run em hard anyway...

That's true, they can be tough on oil especially when they see a lot of rpms.

 

[benjy]

full synthetic is just "advertising" in USA you want a real synthetic Ester + or PAO, RedLine is my first choice!!! higher viscosity is good as once past the spec @ 100C oils continue to thin with heat, hence Ester based oils as they thin less with high heat + thicken less in the cold. i question your choice of a 5W as well as thinner base oils needed for that rating burn off, in calif a 20-50 Redline or their 15-50 would surely be better IMO!!

 

[nastyc5]

Originally Posted by benjy
full synthetic is just "advertising" in USA you want a real synthetic Ester + or PAO, RedLine is my first choice!!! higher viscosity is good as once past the spec @ 100C oils continue to thin with heat, hence Ester based oils as they thin less with high heat + thicken less in the cold. i question your choice of a 5W as well as thinner base oils needed for that rating burn off, in calif a 20-50 Redline or their 15-50 would surely be better IMO!!


I thought about a 15w50, which I have used before but on built engines with slightly more bearing clearances. I wanted to try a 5w50 now that we're getting into the fall and my next track date is the first week of November. I'll be logging oil pressures and temps for sure.

 

[Spector]

I had a VOA done on the #132 many years ago, the lab had difficulty with the sample as it ran like honey in some of their tests, especially when heated. It significantly increases viscosity so I agree with many above, with the W50 it will be overkill!

 

[MolaKule]

Why use a 5W50 oil when the spec is is a 5W30?

A 50 grade oil will rob you of some horsepower simply because your engine will expend some horsepower attempting to move a 50 grade through the engine.

Why not just bump up to a syntheic 10W30?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Why use a 5W50 oil when the spec is is a 5W30?
The big worry is temperature from track use. And his LS3 has a hot cam and xtra hp too. Chevy recommends M1 15w50 for track use, which tells me oil cooling doesn't keep up when running hard. If this were real racing, where you want to win, then an extra 1 or 2 mph speed delta you'd get running a thinner oil would matter. I'd guess this is just for fun, and he wants the engine to last a long time.

On the Moly EP #132 idea he had, that stuff will thicken the oil a tad, so using a full syn 5w30 or 10w30 would seem to be OK if the additive goes in. And the antimony EP part may help prevent bearing damage if pushed too hard. ...... My 1st choice would be using Ravenol 5w40, no Moly EP 132 added, bumping up only 1 grade over the street-spec 5w30; ..... agreed no need for a 50 weight if a great synthetic is being used.

 

[nastyc5]

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Why use a 5W50 oil when the spec is is a 5W30?

A 50 grade oil will rob you of some horsepower simply because your engine will expend some horsepower attempting to move a 50 grade through the engine.

Why not just bump up to a syntheic 10W30?


A high volume oil pump, oil pan baffle kit and crank oil scraper kit are also being installed onto the engine. Spinning 800rpm more at redline vs stock, higher valve spring pressures, aftermarket lifters, aftermarket cam, I need maximum protection when hot lapping the car. Not too worried about sacrificing a couple of ponies for some longevity. The crank scraper setup alone frees up 2% hp to the wheels by removing clinging oil from the crank and improving oil control.

Ive used 40 and 50 weight oils on modified LS engines without issues for years. Even stock I prefer a 0W-40 or 5W-40 with our year-round warm weather in SoCal.

 

[nastyc5]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Why use a 5W50 oil when the spec is is a 5W30?
The big worry is temperature from track use. And his LS3 has a hot cam and xtra hp too. Chevy recommends M1 15w50 for track use, which tells me oil cooling doesn't keep up when running hard. If this were real racing, where you want to win, then an extra 1 or 2 mph speed delta you'd get running a thinner oil would matter. I'd guess this is just for fun, and he wants the engine to last a long time.

On the Moly EP #132 idea he had, that stuff will thicken the oil a tad, so using a full syn 5w30 or 10w30 would seem to be OK if the additive goes in. And the antimony EP part may help prevent bearing damage if pushed too hard. ...... My 1st choice would be using Ravenol 5w40, no Moly EP 132 added, bumping up only 1 grade over the street-spec 5w30; ..... agreed no need for a 50 weight if a great synthetic is being used.


I have to look into Ravenol. I usually run 15w40 oils at the track. I wanted to see how a 5w50 would do and figured it wouldnt be too far from a 15w40 in terms of viscosity.

 

[MolaKule]

I think this oil would provide plenty of wear protection and film strength without consuming HP to move a 50 weight.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...e-30-heavy-duty-motor-oil/?code=ACD1G-EA

It has a High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity of 3.6 cP.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by MolaKule
I think this oil would provide plenty of wear protection and film strength without consuming HP to move a 50 weight.
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...e-30-heavy-duty-motor-oil/?code=ACD1G-EA
It has a High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity of 3.6 cP.
... and an amazing NOACK of 4.2 ! Not bad; best number for that I've ever seen. SL qualified for gasoline engines too, not just diesel.
The Ravenol 5w40's I recommended above have NOACK 7 to 8, and slightly higher HTHS of 3.75-3.8 (Ravenol VST or VSI 5w40). This Amsoil would definitely hold up, tough oil there.
Also, the Amsoil uses no VII chemicals to gum up the works.

Amsoil's NOACK = 4.2 is impressive, as mentioned, and I don't know exactly what base oils they use, but its a diesel & SL gasoline engine 10w30 oil just like Valvoline Premium Blue Restore which is known to have almost zero GroupIII oil in it with a NOACK = 5.4 . Wonder what base oils Amsoil uses then? Must be just fine anyway.

from https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4839503 for Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10w30:
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Code
20% PAO

50% polyol ester (POE)

10% alkylated naphthalene (AN)

0% viscosity-index improver (VII)

20% additive package

(Likely formulation according to the patent)

Polyol ester (POE) and alkylated naphthalene (AN) are base stocks with high solvency, which perform the engine cleaning.

The additive package is the standard used in other Valvoline oils.

Note the absence of viscosity-index improver (VII). It's technically a monograde oil.

It's a SAE 10W-30 HDEO with KV100 = 12.0 cSt and HTHSV = 3.9 cP. However, since it has no VII, it can also be legally labeled as a SAE 30.

NOACK = 5.4%

If you think you need it, give it a try. It should work. Don't neglect to get an oversized (if possible), high-capacity fully synthetic oil filter.

Valvoline US patent US20170029734A1... deposits in internal combustion engines