Navy selects builder for aerial refueling drone

[Mr Nice]

Navy selects builder for aerial refueling drone. I never would have thought a drone would be used, I know they use the Hornet for mid air refueling. This is sooo cool.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...w-mq-25-stingray-aerial-refueling-drone/

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I really wonder how difficult it is to trap these drones on a carrier in rough seas?

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I really wonder how difficult it is to trap these drones on a carrier in rough seas?

I guess if they get serious about it, they could collect and leverage all sorts of data about how the ship is moving, predict its movements based on incoming waves, or even planned course changes. I imagine there must be some sort of short range way to track wind gusts even. Feed all this to the drone in real time and it will be doing landings that human pilots couldn't dream of making in rough conditions.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Great idea more small stealth tankers are better. Remember you lessons from history.

 

[wdn]

US Navy attack submarines have recoverable drones that fly out of them while the submarine is submerged, and are used for reconnaissance and targeting, and they can be weaponized.

 

[Timo325]

Navy announced a just few days ago. Why show the video of LM's MQ-25 bid? It confuses people.

This was long overdue. Beside eating up frame time on the Rhinos, it was necessary to extend the legs of strike aircraft due to A2/AD capabilities of our peer adversaries.

 

[Timo325]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I really wonder how difficult it is to trap these drones on a carrier in rough seas?



Not bad at all. Magic Carpet (PLM flight control logic) has been a game changer.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by IndyIan
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I really wonder how difficult it is to trap these drones on a carrier in rough seas?

I guess if they get serious about it, they could collect and leverage all sorts of data about how the ship is moving, predict its movements based on incoming waves, or even planned course changes. I imagine there must be some sort of short range way to track wind gusts even. Feed all this to the drone in real time and it will be doing landings that human pilots couldn't dream of making in rough conditions.


Yeah...

Other way around.

Humans can compensate for dynamic conditions that computers cannot. How are those driverless cars doing?

The drone will use the ship's ACLS (Automatic Carrier Landing System - first used in the 1970s). The ACLS uses inputs from the ship's own inertial reference system, and a dedicated radar transmitter on the ship, to lock up the drone and feed it precise glideslope and course information. It's incredibly precise. When the F/A-18 started doing ACLS landings, the system started adding a scatter factor of +/- 6 inches vertically, to move the hook point fore and aft on the deck by 10 feet, to minimize the chances of hook points pounding a divot in the deck itself....at least, on a steady deck...

The ACLS has limits, however, and cannot handle what human pilots (Naval Aviators, in particular) have demonstrated.

PLM makes things easier on the pilot - fewer inputs and uses a fundamentally different architecture than ACLS - it's not employed across the fleet, yet. I'm not certain if the drone will be able to use it...

 

[Timo325]

Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by IndyIan
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I really wonder how difficult it is to trap these drones on a carrier in rough seas?

I guess if they get serious about it, they could collect and leverage all sorts of data about how the ship is moving, predict its movements based on incoming waves, or even planned course changes. I imagine there must be some sort of short range way to track wind gusts even. Feed all this to the drone in real time and it will be doing landings that human pilots couldn't dream of making in rough conditions.


Yeah...

Other way around.

Humans can compensate for dynamic conditions that computers cannot. How are those driverless cars doing?

The drone will use the ship's ACLS (Automatic Carrier Landing System - first used in the 1970s). The ACLS uses inputs from the ship's own inertial reference system, and a dedicated radar transmitter on the ship, to lock up the drone and feed it precise glideslope and course information. It's incredibly precise. When the F/A-18 started doing ACLS landings, the system started adding a scatter factor of +/- 6 inches vertically, to move the hook point fore and aft on the deck by 10 feet, to minimize the chances of hook points pounding a divot in the deck itself....at least, on a steady deck...

The ACLS has limits, however, and cannot handle what human pilots (Naval Aviators, in particular) have demonstrated.

PLM makes things easier on the pilot - fewer inputs and uses a fundamentally different architecture than ACLS - it's not employed across the fleet, yet. I'm not certain if the drone will be able to use it...



ICLS and ACLS are being replaced by JPALS. Which is "Hands-off"

JPALS among other reasons, is also made to support UAS. ACLS cannot support UAS.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I really wonder how difficult it is to trap these drones on a carrier in rough seas?



Worst case scenario, you ditch it into the sea. You cant do that with a manned plane. Considering the cost of your average specified attack mission, the added cost of one drone is probably chump change.

 

[PimTac]

Imagine a carrier with thousands of drones. Swarming attack.

 

[Astro14]

Drone landing capability isn't a matter of approach precision.

ACLS gets the airplane within an inch or two of specified glideslope. JPALS promises accuracy within meter of glideslope ( which is horrible, by the way, see my F-14 discussion. A human pilot landing a meter off glideslope would get a bad grade). I'm certain that classified JPALS performance at sea is excellent. But that's irrelevant.

The question is one of safety margins (hook to ramp clearance, for example, one of the most critical, and the first to go in pitching deck) while the ship is pitching, rolling, yawing and heaving. As that ship's motion is accounted for, the approach will lose the safety margin in rough seas - requiring a go-around (wave off).

Human pilots, with LSO help, have been able to land when those margins are grossly exceeded. See my discussion on pitching deck recoveries.

Coupled systems would keep the airplane on glideslope - not helpful when that position in space is below the deck itself during a large deck pitch cycle. The drone must go around when that situation occurs. The human pilot can compensate for the non-normal situation.

Decision making, in a dynamic and unpredictable environment, remains the advantage of manned airplanes.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted by Astro14


Decision making, in a dynamic and unpredictable environment, remains the advantage of manned airplanes.


But many unmanned or unwomaned planes are controlled by humans. Maybe a hybrid would work well. Computers doing all the housekeeping and the remote human making executive type decisions.

How powerful to be able to wage war knowing no one on your side is going to be killed.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by turtlevette
How powerful to be able to wage war knowing no one on your side is going to be killed.


Humans will always target and kill other humans during a war ... even if it was all done by drones. The main targets would be the places the people controlling the drone were in.

 

[paigemoody547]

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