Ford recalls 2 million F-150 trucks to prevent seatbelt fires

[wdn]

Yikes. Huge Ford F-150 recall announced today affecting 2 million owners.

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/e3e92e10-da33-3947-a90f-8bf228b1ba65/ford-recalls-2-million-f-150.html

 

[StevieC]

It's sad that the media doesn't put the manufacturer of the part as the headline and then say it affects Ford F-150's. This makes it out to look like Ford is the culprit.

 

[novadude]

If a seatbelt tensioner was sparking enough to cause a fire, I would guess that you'd be able to feel something wrong when putting on the belt, no?

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted by StevieC
It's sad that the media doesn't put the manufacturer of the part as the headline and then say it affects Ford F-150's. This makes it out to look like Ford is the culprit.



Consumer by and large do not care about the suppliers, just the lead manufacturer of the whole product. Any issue with the suppliers is between them and the lead manufacturer.

My customers hold me responsible for the product I build and I hold my suppliers responsible for the parts they build and deliver.

 

[wdn]

People buy their trucks from Ford Motor Company, so FMC is the one that has to issue the huge recall. If they have to recoup their costs from a supplier, that is between Ford and somebody. Ford is responsible for every part of the car.

 

[StevieC]

Quote
Ford said the problem involves the pre-tensioner devices for the front seat belts. Those are designed to tighten the seat belt in a crash, to better hold an occupant. In a crash those pre-tensioners, which use a small explosive charge, can "result in excessive sparks" which can cause the fire.


This is what I heard on the radio this morning. I had no idea these were designed with charges inside. Interesting...

 

[supton]

Yeah, I've heard of them using something similar to the primer of a shotgun shell (heard that a couple decades ago so they may well be using something else now).

As much as I don't like Ford this seems like a minor issue in the scheme of things. I mean, Ford is going to replace these (after getting their money out of their supplier), and this is only an issue after a crash, and probably a low risk at that.

 

[KGMtech]

After reading what the Ford approved fix is, this is strong indication that ZF TRW and / or Takata is not to blame because the remedy is more about protecting adjacent materials from ignition = Ford assembly issue, not a seat belt component issue.

 

[MNgopher]

Exactly. What I am seeing is essentially the b pillar trim comes off, some interior materials are trimmed and cleaned up, and some thermal tape is installed. No part replacement. Part of why dealers can start now - no delay waiting on parts.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Quote
Ford said the problem involves the pre-tensioner devices for the front seat belts. Those are designed to tighten the seat belt in a crash, to better hold an occupant. In a crash those pre-tensioners, which use a small explosive charge, can "result in excessive sparks" which can cause the fire.


This is what I heard on the radio this morning. I had no idea these were designed with charges inside. Interesting...


That is how all pretensioners work. That is why they are shipped HAZMAT.

 

[tcp71]

As described, it involves moving some insulation and replacing it with foil tape. It only happens if you have had a crash that "pre-tensions" the belts. I would assume that is hard enough to set of airbags as well. In that case, getting out of the vehicle quickly would be useful.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted by tcp71
As described, it involves moving some insulation and replacing it with foil tape. It only happens if you have had a crash that "pre-tensions" the belts. I would assume that is hard enough to set of airbags as well. In that case, getting out of the vehicle quickly would be useful.


The pre-tensioner is SUPPOSED to work in conjunction with the airbags during a crash. An inflating airbag can be quite a dangerous thing to hit(due to the speed of inflation and the pressures in the bag) and it's my understanding that the pre-tensioner keeps your body from moving forward until the bag is just starting to DEFLATE and thus is a lot softer and better able to cushion your face/torso hitting it. Also, the pre-tensioners force you down into the seat and hopefully into a position where you hit the bag from the most efficient position.

With that said, I've had a pre-tensioner fire once, and the driver side airbag didn't deploy. The bag for the unoccupied passenger seat DID fire, but not the pre-tensioner on the unoccupied passenger seat. I drove the car a bit after the accident-primarily to deliver it to the new owner who bought it from me(and with the fuse pulled from the airbag system on the off chance that the car decided that it wanted to fire the driver side bag) and the belt basically was "locked" to fit me(and it was a snug fit at that). It didn't retract, nor would it pull out any further-if I'd decided to fix the car(I likely would have had it not been for the passenger airbag/dash torn open/broken windshield) I'd have needed to replace the pre-tensioner. Actually, I'd have most likely done the whole seat belt assembly since I've always been warned that a crash places a LOT of stress on a belt that's in use and can cause failure down the line at the worst possible time.

BTW, this was an '04 m/y car with a pretty decent complement of airbags-or at least front driver and passenger side airbags in addition to the standard steering wheel/dash bags. The pre-tensioners were in the B-pillar, as decribed for these F-150s and as I think is typical of FoMoCo products(this was a Lincoln). When researching after the accident, I found several illustrations/pictures of pre-tensioners on the buckle rather than on the retracter/inertia reel/B pillar. I'm not sure how common the buckle arrangement is now.

 

[NHGUY]

I believe they are using 3m aluminum faced tape.Available at big
box stores.

 

[PimTac]

This is all new to me. I thought the pre- tensioner device was a pendulum or some kind of accelerometer. I've had my seatbelts lock up in hard braking.

This was on a 2000 vehicle so I may be out of date.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by PimTac
This is all new to me. I thought the pre- tensioner device was a pendulum or some kind of accelerometer. I've had my seatbelts lock up in hard braking.

This was on a 2000 vehicle so I may be out of date.

AFAIK that is not the pretensioner. Not sure what it's called, but it's just the lock. You can trip it by simply pulling hard on the seatbelt when you go to put it on (that's actually a way to test the seatbelt, it's supposed to do that).

The pretensioner is supposed to remove all slack from the system (and very fast at that). Basically, if your body can move forward any amount, it is going to rapidly accelerate fast over that distance. Err... this is where it gets kinda relative. To your frame of motion. Accelerate fast relative to the seatback, maybe that's a good frame of reference--at point of impact, the front bumper of the car has stopped, your seat back may be slowing down--but your body sure hasn't. Whatever momentum it had before is carried forward. Until it hits the seatbelt. By removing any slack it's supposed to help control what your body is doing. [Accelerate is probably the wrong term here, lack of decel is probably the right one, lack of decel relative to everything else.]

Seatbelts have some amount of give in them, and are supposed to be replaced after accidents.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted by supton

This is all new to me. I thought the pre- tensioner device was a pendulum or some kind of accelerometer. I've had my seatbelts lock up in hard braking.


I've always heard it called an "inertia reel."

My 1970 MG doesn't have one-the shoulder belt fastens to the back deck of the car(it's a bit of a pain, as you have to unhook and rehook it every time you put the top up or down) and you're supposed to adjust the belt until it holds you "snugly." Even though it's inconvenient, I actually kind of like it as it makes me feel very secure in the car, although it's obviously a pain if the car regularly has different drivers and/or passengers. Since my girlfriend is about the only one to ever ride in the passenger seat, it stays adjusted to her, and it can be a bit of a learning process for someone to figure out how to both adjust and buckle it). MG only used the fixed shoulder belt design for a few years-they added an inertia reel maybe in '72 or '73(and changed the mounting point to the rear wheel well rather than the back deck).

In any case, the pretensioner is a LOT faster than the inertia reel. The inertia reel only reacts to you suddenly pulling the belt out, while the pretensioner acts hopefully before any significant movement occurs in an accident. They are a one shot deal, and you will KNOW if one has gone off. Aside from the seat belt not retracting, the ear closest to it will probably be ringing and your shoulder will probably be sore the next day.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Originally Posted by supton

This is all new to me. I thought the pre- tensioner device was a pendulum or some kind of accelerometer. I've had my seatbelts lock up in hard braking.


I've always heard it called an "inertia reel."

My 1970 MG doesn't have one-the shoulder belt fastens to the back deck of the car(it's a bit of a pain, as you have to unhook and rehook it every time you put the top up or down) and you're supposed to adjust the belt until it holds you "snugly." Even though it's inconvenient, I actually kind of like it as it makes me feel very secure in the car, although it's obviously a pain if the car regularly has different drivers and/or passengers. Since my girlfriend is about the only one to ever ride in the passenger seat, it stays adjusted to her, and it can be a bit of a learning process for someone to figure out how to both adjust and buckle it). MG only used the fixed shoulder belt design for a few years-they added an inertia reel maybe in '72 or '73(and changed the mounting point to the rear wheel well rather than the back deck).

In any case, the pretensioner is a LOT faster than the inertia reel. The inertia reel only reacts to you suddenly pulling the belt out, while the pretensioner acts hopefully before any significant movement occurs in an accident. They are a one shot deal, and you will KNOW if one has gone off. Aside from the seat belt not retracting, the ear closest to it will probably be ringing and your shoulder will probably be sore the next day.



I hope I don't have to experience that. I'm deaf in my right ear so I don't need any other problems.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by bunnspecial
I found several illustrations/pictures of pre-tensioners on the buckle rather than on the retracter/inertia reel/B pillar. I'm not sure how common the buckle arrangement is now.


Pretty common now - moving the pyrotechnic portion to the buckle also means lower cost of manufacture. Unless there's an electric tightener like that used by Mercedes Pre-Safe PLUS that cinches the belts snug when they are buckled.

With Ford's new inflatable belt system, the buckle assembly also contains the gas generator used to inflate the belt. The belt latch plate contains a aperture cover and passage for gas to enter the seat belt/bag assembly.

 

[bdcardinal]

So both options for tape that Ford lists in teh recall are now on backorder from Amazon and Grainger. Ford doesn't let us order from them. Luckily we got some rolls of it for the techs in the shop to share.

 

[nthach]

What tape is Ford specifying, some esoteric 3M product?