Why all of the goofy marketing ploys by M1?

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Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: sloinker
The ad campaign that sets my teeth on edge is for some auto insurance company. The mom is thankful that her insurance sent someone to change her useless sons flat while two other loser teenagers are stranded and don't know how to change a tire. This ad just highlights that we have a generation of idiots turning into adults right now.

Sad but true
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Whimsey

I was about 20 when I stopped to help a high school girl who had dropped a wheel into a concrete cut at the edge of a construction zone and gotten a flat as well as damaged the underside of the vehicle. 3-4 people ended up helping with her car, very busy area and she was blocking traffic. She must have been cruising pretty good and she popped back out of the cut onto the road before she stopped.
It was her dad's car and she didn't want him to know anything had happened...IIRC, the spare was on a steelie and the flat was on an alloy rim, so she asked us to put the spare tire on the alloy rim so her dad wouldn't know the tire had been changed.
She also asked if we could bang out the damage a little bit so it would be less obvious.
She seemed bummed that we couldn't help with those things and I don't remember her thanking anybody...she wasn't exactly rude, I think she was thinking ahead to how her dad was going to react and so worried about it that she wasn't really with us mentally.
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Grampi, it’s ALL about marketing. Even for stuff that shouldn’t need marketing. Diageo, makers of Captain Morgan, Smirnoff, and several other brands, has a North American marketing budget of $750 MILLION dollars. We are one of their largest suppliers of glass containers, and their total business with us is only about $50M in glass bottles (and the bottles are the most expensive part of the finished product, usually about 3-5 times the cost of the liquor inside).. Kinda crazy to me to have advertising at that much of a disparity to product price. You can make and sell your product without a 1500% overhead I’m sure. I’d imagine Mobil likewise spends an inordinate amount more on advertising than on the actual product.


Those are some, ahem, sobering stats. Kind of makes you think there might be something to Supertech.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I'd say there are still some areas where Mobil 1 is superior - 1. Usually ahead of the formulation curve by using the latest in additive technology as shown via meeting SN + 7 years ahead of the rest.


There are only 2 ways I can see that you can "meet" a spec several years before it was even implemented as a standard:
1. You just happened to be the blind squirrel who found his nut that day, 7 years early; or,
2. You are a "too-big-to-fail" company that used significant money and influence to steer the standard in the direction of your existing product, before your competitors did.

Oh, by the way, when I look into the API, who determines the SN+ standard, look what we find:
Quote:
API spent more than $3 million annually during the period 2005 to 2009 on lobbying; $3.6 million in 2009.[13] As of 2009, according to API’s quarterly “Lobbying Report” submitted to the U.S. Senate, the organization had 16 lobbyists lobbying Congress. According to an investigation conducted by the International Business Times, API lobbied the Department of State for all of 2009 on "legislative efforts concerning oil sands" and "Canadian Oil Sands."

The American Petroleum Institute also lobbied the State Department every quarter in 2009. In three of four quarters, the group listed “legislative efforts concerning oil sands” as one of the areas it was focusing on in its lobbying, and in the final quarter, it listed “Canadian Oil Sands.” Among API’s members are ExxonMobil (italics and bold are mine), which has invested in Canadian oil sands.


So API set the standard, and then lobby to get government to do exactly what they want. No wonder they can meet a spec that hadn't even been dreamed of and portray themselves like a boss.
 
No probs
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they will know it.

Ask them if they are in the barmy army...tribes of brits following cricket around the world being yobbos.

Thanks for some of the stats in the thread, particularly packaging and advertising. When you watch filling stations on documentaries, the product itself ain't worth much effort to keep.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Fram isn't any better, when they claim that an air filter will only protect your engine up to 20,000 miles.

That's nothing more than a sleezy marketing ploy to sell more filters.

In what way? Most owners manuals say 15k miles for the A/F.
 
Oh, by the way, when I look into the API, who determines the SN+ standard, look what we find:

Quote:
API spent more than $3 million annually during the period 2005 to 2009 on lobbying; $3.6 million in 2009.[13] As of 2009, according to API’s quarterly “Lobbying Report” submitted to the U.S. Senate, the organization had 16 lobbyists lobbying Congress. According to an investigation conducted by the International Business Times, API lobbied the Department of State for all of 2009 on "legislative efforts concerning oil sands" and "Canadian Oil Sands."

The American Petroleum Institute also lobbied the State Department every quarter in 2009. In three of four quarters, the group listed “legislative efforts concerning oil sands” as one of the areas it was focusing on in its lobbying, and in the final quarter, it listed “Canadian Oil Sands.” Among API’s members are ExxonMobil (italics and bold are mine), which has invested in Canadian oil sands.


So API set the standard, and then lobby to get government to do exactly what they want. No wonder they can meet a spec that hadn't even been dreamed of and portray themselves like a boss.

[/quote]

Imagine that.
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Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted By: buster
I'd say there are still some areas where Mobil 1 is superior - 1. Usually ahead of the formulation curve by using the latest in additive technology as shown via meeting SN + 7 years ahead of the rest.


There are only 2 ways I can see that you can "meet" a spec several years before it was even implemented as a standard:
1. You just happened to be the blind squirrel who found his nut that day, 7 years early; or,
2. You are a "too-big-to-fail" company that used significant money and influence to steer the standard in the direction of your existing product, before your competitors did.

Oh, by the way, when I look into the API, who determines the SN+ standard, look what we find:
Quote:
API spent more than $3 million annually during the period 2005 to 2009 on lobbying; $3.6 million in 2009.[13] As of 2009, according to API’s quarterly “Lobbying Report” submitted to the U.S. Senate, the organization had 16 lobbyists lobbying Congress. According to an investigation conducted by the International Business Times, API lobbied the Department of State for all of 2009 on "legislative efforts concerning oil sands" and "Canadian Oil Sands."

The American Petroleum Institute also lobbied the State Department every quarter in 2009. In three of four quarters, the group listed “legislative efforts concerning oil sands” as one of the areas it was focusing on in its lobbying, and in the final quarter, it listed “Canadian Oil Sands.” Among API’s members are ExxonMobil (italics and bold are mine), which has invested in Canadian oil sands.


So API set the standard, and then lobby to get government to do exactly what they want. No wonder they can meet a spec that hadn't even been dreamed of and portray themselves like a boss.


This is old news. What relation is there between lobbying, XOM and SN +? The major formulators often work closely with OEMs and additive suppliers. That is where a lot of information is obtained.

I fail to see your point. No kidding big companies spend money on advertising. LOL. Who doesn’t? And do you think that your non major brand isn’t trying to make a profit on oil by selling a brand that has a bare minimum additive package sold by Lubrizol or Infineum.

I have spoken first hand with engineers that work with the major oil companies. One in particular always said that buying a formulation from one of the majors you get a product that has been thoroughly well tested, unlike some of the smaller brands that either 1. Rely on an additive company for development or 2. Use old technology.

The guy I had an exchange with told me they occasionally reverse engineered some of the smaller players products and what they would find was sub par quality with dated additives.

Take a look at what Amsoil and the rest did...they ALL now use mg/Ca and did away with the higher doses of Ca and SA. Why did they do this then? If there was a better way why didn’t they do it?
 
Valvoline is the one brand in particular that is making me laugh with their Modern Synthetic. I have no issues with Valvoline quality. I use it in one of our cars. But consider what they are saying now and look at the response I received from Mobil back in 2012

“"We appreciate the feedback. A slight reduction in ash is desirable for advanced engine technology such as gasoline direct injection (GDI) engine and passenger car diesel engines. With GDI engines, higher levels of ash appear to result in a higher occurrence of Low Speed Pre-Ignition. The industry is currently developing tests and specifications to address Low Speed Pre-Ignition. In the future, passenger car engine oil specifications such as ILSAC GF-6 and dexos1 (next generation) are likely to have requirements such as lower ash to address Low Speed Pre-Ignition.

As for TBN retention, it is only a single parameter that provides an indication of the used oil condition. A reduction in TBN is an indication that the overbased detergent is doing its job by neutralizing acids that form as a result of combustion. TBN should be used in combination with other used oil parameters such as oxidation, nitration, TAN (Total Acid Number), ICP metals, D4684 MRV viscosity, and D445 kinematic viscosity to determine the overall condition of the used oil.

Finally, in our experience in severe-service Las Vegas field testing, Mobil 1 engine oil TBN levels typically do not drop below 2 for vehicles with 15,000 mile oil drain intervals. Furthermore, it is our experience that those oils tend not to drop any lower when we continue to 20,000 mile oil drains.”

We hope this information was both helpful and informative. Thanks again for reaching out, and for your continued support of Mobil 1."
 
Castrol was also ahead on this too I believe as they dropped the high Ca in favor of mg/Ca combo.
 
The API members list is comprised of players in the petroleum industry, I'm not sure why that should be surprising?

Originally Posted By: API
Our corporate members, from the largest major oil company to the smallest of independents, come from all sectors of the industry. They are producers, refiners, suppliers, pipeline operators and marine transportation companies, as well as service and supply companies that support all segments of the industry. Our members are committed to develop and adhere to the highest level industry standards, protect the environment, and lead in health and safety performance.


The list is available right on the API website:
https://www.api.org/membership/members

Some recognizable names are:
CONOCOPHILLIPS
DOW CHEMICAL COMPANY
ENBRIDGE, INC.
EXXONMOBIL
FASTENAL COMPANY
GATES CORPORATION
GE ENERGY/ BENTLY NEVADA
HONEYWELL ENRAF AMERICAS INC.
IDEMITSU LUBRICANTS AMERICA
INFINEUM
INNOVA GLOBAL
LUBRIZOL CORPORATION
MARATHON OIL COMPANY
MITSUBISHI CORPORATION (AMERICAS)
PHILLIPS 66
SHELL OIL COMPANY
SIEMENS
SYNCRUDE CANADA LTD.
TIDEWATER INC.
VALVOLINE LLC
 
Overkill, it's not surprising. I was saying it's a little dishonest to say "we met that spec 10 years ago before it even existed" when they're the one that develops the spec. Kind of like letting inmates decide when they've earned their parole.

"Day 2! I'm reformed, lemme out!"
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To consider the alternative, who would be a better member of the API than the oil companies themselves? The name itself is pretty clear just like the American Pilots Assoc or the American Medical Assoc.
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Overkill, it's not surprising. I was saying it's a little dishonest to say "we met that spec 10 years ago before it even existed" when they're the one that develops the spec. Kind of like letting inmates decide when they've earned their parole.

"Day 2! I'm reformed, lemme out!"
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I prefer to look at it as "before it was ratified"
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Buster's exchange with Mobil shows that they were aware of LSPI, and likely had been for a while. Being proactive and developing a formula that worked to alleviate that issue in anticipation that it could, and probably would, particularly given the collaboration between XOM and SOPUS via Infineum, make its way into the specification stream later on could of course be construed as insider knowledge, but I don't think it is "dishonest". They were, as were probably all of the members, aware of what was coming down the pipe. These things are drafted up well in advance of when we see them and so it isn't really surprising that one of the larger players would take a proactive approach with regards to meeting them, I'm quite sure SOPUS does the same thing.
 
^ well said.

I’m not implying M1 is the best oil and has not had it’s fair share of issues via Valvoline or this latest Shell/Delvac. I try to give credit where credit is due.

There are many other great brands of oil to choose from. Everyone is entitled to love or hate any brand they want to.
 
I think the broblem is in YOU for believing in the marketing ploys.

Full Synthetic is Full Synthetic. I buy clearanced synthetic when it falls under $3 a quart and run it 10k miles. Your engine will not know the difference if it has SuperTech or Mobil 1 AP in there. 300k miles down the road both oil have done what they are intended to - protect.

Dont fall for the M1 marketing ploys... Save money.
 
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Originally Posted By: Serge
I think the broblem is in YOU for believing in the marketing ploys.

Full Synthetic is Full Synthetic. I buy clearanced synthetic when it falls under $3 a quart and run it 10k miles. Your engine will not know the difference if it has SuperTech or Mobil 1 AP in there. 300k miles down the road both oil have done what they are intended to - protect.

Dont fall for the M1 marketing ploys... Save money.


Who says I believe them? I didn't...
 
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