Freighliner Cascadia Truck
Doesn't look like a piece of vaporware and takes care of the diesel emissions headaches
Doesn't look like a piece of vaporware and takes care of the diesel emissions headaches
One Dollar Per Gallon?
- Thread starter Y_K
- Start date
- Status
Why aren't there more of these CNG trucks?
I likes that Freightliner. Clean burning and no diesel fumes. I wouldn't mine having one just to run around in.
Odd that diesel is giving way to CNG in some applications. Even some new big cruise ships are being built as CNG.
CNG and LNG are becoming more and more common in trucks and a lot of other things, and it makes much more sense to me than anything electric. The cost of natural gas is usually cheaper per mile than an equivalent sized electric motor and the amount of electricity it needs to charge. At the same time it's not stressing out our overloaded grid and burns cleanly using engines that already exist. We don't need those silly rechargeable semis, and we don't need hydrogen power either. Gas comes out of the ground, ready to burn!
Depending on where you are at, and especially at the commercial level, CNG can be much less than $1/gallon equivalent. I have some commercial property in NC, and if I used a bunch of natural gas at the commercial rate, the cost would be about $0.54/gallon equivalent. You can't buy electricity for double that!
The only big problem is the compressor needed. To get a good one you're looking at $10,000 or more. Home versions are cheaper, but they don't tend to last very long. Not a huge investment for a company with a big fleet though, huge savings to be had.
Originally Posted By: ctechbob
Even some new big cruise ships are being built as CNG.
Actually, that would have to be LNG, there is no way they could store enough compressed CNG to power a cruise ship. UPS is starting to use a bunch of LNG semis for the increased range when running a standard route from hub to hub, it's easy for them to refill at the hub with their own LNG system. You can store much more natural gas as a liquid than you can compressed at a few thousand PSI - BUT it's hard to make into liquid and must be kept cold.
Depending on where you are at, and especially at the commercial level, CNG can be much less than $1/gallon equivalent. I have some commercial property in NC, and if I used a bunch of natural gas at the commercial rate, the cost would be about $0.54/gallon equivalent. You can't buy electricity for double that!
The only big problem is the compressor needed. To get a good one you're looking at $10,000 or more. Home versions are cheaper, but they don't tend to last very long. Not a huge investment for a company with a big fleet though, huge savings to be had.
Originally Posted By: ctechbob
Even some new big cruise ships are being built as CNG.
Actually, that would have to be LNG, there is no way they could store enough compressed CNG to power a cruise ship. UPS is starting to use a bunch of LNG semis for the increased range when running a standard route from hub to hub, it's easy for them to refill at the hub with their own LNG system. You can store much more natural gas as a liquid than you can compressed at a few thousand PSI - BUT it's hard to make into liquid and must be kept cold.
It's not vapour ware. Our US part of the company put quite a few into service
But...
Much higher purchase cost
Convenient availability could be an issue
It is like a big gasoline engine that needs more frequent maintenance, oil changes, and spark plug replacement
Less range, just can't store as much energy as diesel, CNG tanks are bulky
CNG tanks need safety inspections and certifications periodically
Less power, not suitable in Canada for our heavier loads, 140,000+ lbs, unless you could dedicate the CNG trucks to specific lanes short haul lanes
But...
Much higher purchase cost
Convenient availability could be an issue
It is like a big gasoline engine that needs more frequent maintenance, oil changes, and spark plug replacement
Less range, just can't store as much energy as diesel, CNG tanks are bulky
CNG tanks need safety inspections and certifications periodically
Less power, not suitable in Canada for our heavier loads, 140,000+ lbs, unless you could dedicate the CNG trucks to specific lanes short haul lanes
Originally Posted By: Danno
It is like a big gasoline engine that needs more frequent maintenance, oil changes, and spark plug replacement
Actually the big ones are simply converted diesel engines. I don't see why they would take anything extra maintenance wise, the OCI should be longer than diesel. You do have the added spark plugs, but, they're easy to get to and there is only 6 that need service probably every 100k. Not a big deal.
You get most of a diesel engine without the injection system that takes much of the maintenance away and lowers moving parts count increasing reliability.
It is like a big gasoline engine that needs more frequent maintenance, oil changes, and spark plug replacement
Actually the big ones are simply converted diesel engines. I don't see why they would take anything extra maintenance wise, the OCI should be longer than diesel. You do have the added spark plugs, but, they're easy to get to and there is only 6 that need service probably every 100k. Not a big deal.
You get most of a diesel engine without the injection system that takes much of the maintenance away and lowers moving parts count increasing reliability.
Kwik Trip trucks here in MN and WI run on CNG and LNG. Been that way for years.
and taxi in Peru (tank in the trunk)
What is the BTU/gallon of LNG versus a gallon of diesel? I wouldn't think thy LNG would even be close to that of diesel fuel. Not to mention the costs, tank size needed and carrying that much LNG/CNG under extreme pressure is a bomb waiting to explode.
company I drive for going all CNG tractors, they have 100+ already and taking huge accounts away from the diesel fleets...building their own fueling stations in the yard for even more tax credits pushing fuel costs below 50% of diesel..this is the beginning of the end for diesels.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
What is the BTU/gallon of LNG versus a gallon of diesel? I wouldn't think thy LNG would even be close to that of diesel fuel. Not to mention the costs, tank size needed and carrying that much LNG/CNG under extreme pressure is a bomb waiting to explode.
LNG is about 82,000 BTU/gallon, which is significantly less than diesel. With that said, you gotta remember the cost. Diesel is $2.50-$4.00/gallon. Not much discount in bulk. CNG/LNG is $0.50-$1.00 for a gallon equivalent. That is a big, BIG difference!
The range is shortened but on hub to hub trips with an exact known distance it's not hard to plan for. Plus there is lots of room on a semi for big tanks - they're just expensive.
What is the BTU/gallon of LNG versus a gallon of diesel? I wouldn't think thy LNG would even be close to that of diesel fuel. Not to mention the costs, tank size needed and carrying that much LNG/CNG under extreme pressure is a bomb waiting to explode.
LNG is about 82,000 BTU/gallon, which is significantly less than diesel. With that said, you gotta remember the cost. Diesel is $2.50-$4.00/gallon. Not much discount in bulk. CNG/LNG is $0.50-$1.00 for a gallon equivalent. That is a big, BIG difference!
The range is shortened but on hub to hub trips with an exact known distance it's not hard to plan for. Plus there is lots of room on a semi for big tanks - they're just expensive.
You can't liquefy methane at room temperature regardless of the pressure. The critical temperature is well below zero.
I've never seen an LNG powered truck but if there is such a thing the fuel is cryogenic and not under high pressure.
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
What is the BTU/gallon of LNG versus a gallon of diesel? I wouldn't think thy LNG would even be close to that of diesel fuel. Not to mention the costs, tank size needed and carrying that much LNG/CNG under extreme pressure is a bomb waiting to explode.
LNG is about 82,000 BTU/gallon, which is significantly less than diesel. With that said, you gotta remember the cost. Diesel is $2.50-$4.00/gallon. Not much discount in bulk. CNG/LNG is $0.50-$1.00 for a gallon equivalent. That is a big, BIG difference!
The range is shortened but on hub to hub trips with an exact known distance it's not hard to plan for. Plus there is lots of room on a semi for big tanks - they're just expensive.
I've never seen an LNG powered truck but if there is such a thing the fuel is cryogenic and not under high pressure.
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
What is the BTU/gallon of LNG versus a gallon of diesel? I wouldn't think thy LNG would even be close to that of diesel fuel. Not to mention the costs, tank size needed and carrying that much LNG/CNG under extreme pressure is a bomb waiting to explode.
LNG is about 82,000 BTU/gallon, which is significantly less than diesel. With that said, you gotta remember the cost. Diesel is $2.50-$4.00/gallon. Not much discount in bulk. CNG/LNG is $0.50-$1.00 for a gallon equivalent. That is a big, BIG difference!
The range is shortened but on hub to hub trips with an exact known distance it's not hard to plan for. Plus there is lots of room on a semi for big tanks - they're just expensive.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
You can't liquefy methane at room temperature regardless of the pressure. The critical temperature is well below zero.
I've never seen an LNG powered truck but if there is such a thing the fuel is cryogenic and not under high pressure.
I'm not sure what equipment they use for making it but I believe the LNG trucks must keep running after they've been filled - the gas boiling off keeps it cold during use. It's in an insulated cryogenic tank, I've seen a few of the UPS trucks while driving across the country. At first glance they look like normal chrome diesel tanks but if you look closer there is much more going on. They're really showing off their "LNG" badge too.
It's amazing to me that they can import and export LNG on ships and they can load up enough gas to make it viable. Once again I believe the entire ship runs on the gas, boiling off the cargo tanks. This keeps them cool.
You can't liquefy methane at room temperature regardless of the pressure. The critical temperature is well below zero.
I've never seen an LNG powered truck but if there is such a thing the fuel is cryogenic and not under high pressure.
I'm not sure what equipment they use for making it but I believe the LNG trucks must keep running after they've been filled - the gas boiling off keeps it cold during use. It's in an insulated cryogenic tank, I've seen a few of the UPS trucks while driving across the country. At first glance they look like normal chrome diesel tanks but if you look closer there is much more going on. They're really showing off their "LNG" badge too.
It's amazing to me that they can import and export LNG on ships and they can load up enough gas to make it viable. Once again I believe the entire ship runs on the gas, boiling off the cargo tanks. This keeps them cool.
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
I'm not sure what equipment they use for making it but I believe the LNG trucks must keep running after they've been filled - the gas boiling off keeps it cold during use. It's in an insulated cryogenic tank, I've seen a few of the UPS trucks while driving across the country. At first glance they look like normal chrome diesel tanks but if you look closer there is much more going on. They're really showing off their "LNG" badge too.
It's amazing to me that they can import and export LNG on ships and they can load up enough gas to make it viable. Once again I believe the entire ship runs on the gas, boiling off the cargo tanks. This keeps them cool.
One of the engineers who used to work for me spent a few yeas in heavy rotating equipment in oil and gas.
Said that some of the compressors that he commissioned were powered by Trent derivative engines.
Re LNG...Oz decided to export all our Natural Gas...no reserve for domestic consumption, per the Govt think tank "people would be exposed to real gas prices and make rational decisions"...Gas prices went from $4/GJ (Wholesale) to $10/GJ in two years.
My domestic gas costs the same per BTU as unleaded.
People in town started burning coal domestically again..that's economically rational. Running OCGTs on diesel to meet market peaks was another outcome.
Now, there's going to be an LNG terminal built near Melbourne to start importing someone else's gas to stabilise local prices...
https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-econ...612-p4zkwp.html
I'm not sure what equipment they use for making it but I believe the LNG trucks must keep running after they've been filled - the gas boiling off keeps it cold during use. It's in an insulated cryogenic tank, I've seen a few of the UPS trucks while driving across the country. At first glance they look like normal chrome diesel tanks but if you look closer there is much more going on. They're really showing off their "LNG" badge too.
It's amazing to me that they can import and export LNG on ships and they can load up enough gas to make it viable. Once again I believe the entire ship runs on the gas, boiling off the cargo tanks. This keeps them cool.
One of the engineers who used to work for me spent a few yeas in heavy rotating equipment in oil and gas.
Said that some of the compressors that he commissioned were powered by Trent derivative engines.
Re LNG...Oz decided to export all our Natural Gas...no reserve for domestic consumption, per the Govt think tank "people would be exposed to real gas prices and make rational decisions"...Gas prices went from $4/GJ (Wholesale) to $10/GJ in two years.
My domestic gas costs the same per BTU as unleaded.
People in town started burning coal domestically again..that's economically rational. Running OCGTs on diesel to meet market peaks was another outcome.
Now, there's going to be an LNG terminal built near Melbourne to start importing someone else's gas to stabilise local prices...
https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-econ...612-p4zkwp.html
- Status
Similar threads
