Powerservice Diesel Lube Oil Extender

[nickmckinney]

Fe 3
Pb 5
Al 1
Si 15
Na 2
B 6
Ca 6281
Mg 736
P 3548
Sb 3
Zn 3357

All other elements zero

Visc @100C 20.1

Comes in a 3 quart jug at Walmart for ~$20

 

[ford390gashog]

By any chance could this be used in a gas engine running a 15w40 hdeo.

 

[nickmckinney]

quote:

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Originally posted by ford390gashog:
By any chance could this be used in a gas engine running a 15w40 hdeo.

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My original plan was to use it as a assembly and start up lube. I would think a HDEO has enough additive for most engines.

 

[ebaker]

Looks like it might be a good booster for SM oil. I wonder how the cost compares to GM EOS and the Synpower additive? GM EOS has twice as much ZDP so it might be a better assembly/break-in lube.

 

[nickmckinney]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ebaker:
Looks like it might be a good booster for SM oil. I wonder how the cost compares to GM EOS and the Synpower additive? GM EOS has twice as much ZDP so it might be a better assembly/break-in lube.

---

When it stated it was designed to boost up to a 45 quart system, I figured it had to be rich in zinc and detergent. Problem is you never know unless someone forks the money to test. EOS will be still what I use for engine assembly. I can definately see this PS stuff added to SM oil to boost it, thats how I plan to get rid of the rest of it actually.

 

[Bill Plock]

Nick,

Thanks for posting the PS VOA! I'm currently running 4oz of the PS Oil extender in my 04 Impala's 3.4L with M1-5w30. I did a UOA on the oil change before (w/o PS). I'll do another UOA on the next change with the PS extender and post results. Before deciding to try it I requested the MSDS from PS and judging from the MSDS it looked like the extender might be a way to enhance the additive pack including ZDP. I also sent them an email asking if the extender contained any VI improvers. Here is their reply...

"Diesel Lube Oil Extender does not contain any thickeners to affect the
Viscosity Improvers of the oil. It will not affect the base of the oil
either. It only affects the detergent package of the oil. This is why
our product will not void engine warranties. It does an excellent job of
dispersing the soot in the oil which reduces sludge formations. It will
stabilize engine oil, reduce foaming, oxidation and help neutralize
acids.

I have attached a spread sheet showing all the tests that it has passed.
I don't know of another oil additive that has been put through these
strenuous tests and passed. Most oil additives will thicken the oil.

(Summary from the spreadsheet:
Tests: Caterpillar 1K Test, Detroit Diesel 6V92TA Test, Mack T-8 Test, GM 6.2L Test, Mack T-6 Test, Caterpillar 1N Test.

DL Oil Extender contains zinc which helps fill in or causes a molecular film to form over the cracks and imperfections of the combustion chamber (lower cylinder wall) which prevents cylinder from using oil. DL Oil Extender contains magnesium which is an excellent lube agent)

If you have any other questions or concerns please give me a call.

Best regards,

Brian Wilson
Technical Advisor
Compliance Coordinator
(800)643-9089
[email protected]

Power Service Products, Inc."

-----------------------------------------

Also, Here is a snip from the MSDS that states PS DL oil extender contains ZDDP ...

"SECTION II - COMPOSITION/INFORMATION OF INGREDIENTS

INGREDIENT/PERCENT
ORGANIC DETERGENTS, DISPERSANTS AND CORROSIVE INHIBITORS/30-40
PARAFFINIC OIL/50-60

The composition of this mixture is proprietary information. Specific chemical information is being withheld as a Trade Secret. In the event of a medical emergency, compositional information will be provided to health professionals in accordance with 29 CFR 1910.1200.

This product is hazardous as defined in 29 CFR1010.1200, based on the following compositional information.

OSHA HAZARD/COMPONENT
Eye Irritant/ Zinc salt of dialkyl dithiophosphoric acid (ZDDP)"

 

[TallPaul]

This stuff has more than half the zddp of GM EOS and about twice the zddp of the Synpower Oil Treatment or the STP 4-Cylinder Treatment. Pricewise I don't see how you could beat the Powerservice stuff (sorry, don't have the EOS price):

Powerservice: 21 cents per oz
Synpower: 27 cents per oz
STP: 15 cents per oz

On an equal zddp basis (roughly) the Powerservice product will be around only 9 cents per dose

The real bonus with Powerservice is no significant viscosity increase. Of course I will still use the Synpower to thicken oil for the Aerostar (and as a bonus get the other goodies it contains). But the Powerservice may become the mainstay of my motorhome and F150.

 

[T-Keith]

I always wondered what that stuff was. Looks like normal oil add boosting without the VII. Seems like good stuff.

You'd definately want to subtract those numbers from your UOA though. Lots of lead and silicon.

-T

 

[Crashbox]

Why can't more companies make products such as this, that tend to leave the VI alone???

I'd love to see this stuff with a healthy dose of moly DTC or equivalent added.

 

[TallPaul]

There was a STP product like this: STP 6000-Mile Oil Extender. Now discontinued. I have two 15 oz bottles in my stash. The Powerservice Extender would be a nice replacement. I just visited Walmart an hour ago and it was $18.88 a 3 quart jug. They recomment adding the 3 quarts in a 45 quart crankcase, so it's roughly 2 ounces per quart for us. That would boost zddp by about 175 ppm or just enough to make a SM oil into a SL.

OTOH, the Synpower Oil Treatment is pretty decent stuff and if you run a slightly thinner oil you can compensate for its about 80 cSt.

 

[nickmckinney]

quote:

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Originally posted by TallPaul:
OTOH, the Synpower Oil Treatment is pretty decent stuff and if you run a slightly thinner oil you can compensate for its about 80 cSt.

---

I am really enjoying the Synpower with 4~5 quarts Mobil 1 5W20 which makes about a 30W. I might have to cash in the rest of my Pepboys coupons on the 5W20 now I think. Personally I am sold on the Synpower. I found city gas mileage to increase enough on 2 cars with it now, that the $4 bottle is paid for after 2 tanks of gas.

 

[TomJones76]

Over 6000 PPM of Calcium. That's probably the highest Calcium PPM we've ever seen, but it would make sense given that this is an additive an not a base oil.
I'm going to do some math here.
Now, if I added the reccomended ratio, that would be 3 quarts into my car's 6-qt sump.
My old oil has 2463 PPM of calcium after almost 5000 miles, ZINC at 1104 PPM and Phoshorous at 981 PPM.
I ran the math. It looks like this is what the additive would do to my oil:
Calcium: 2463 --> 2559
Zinc: 1104 --> 1155
Phosphorous: 981 --> 1035

I'm thinking that's not really a big change. The only point to it I can see would be if there's something that's invisible in the VOA, or if you added this stuff at a regular interval.
I wonder what would happen if you ran it in your gasser per the reccomendations they give for Lube Control?
I bet you could keep your calcium from EVER depleting, and easily double the mileage it would take your Zinc and Phosphorous to deplete.

In its intended purpose as an HDEO initial additive and top-off, I would imagine this would work great, even if you assume that all of its additive goodness stems from things that show up in a $20 UOA. I wish the original poster had run TBN.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TomJones76:

Now, if I added the reccomended ratio, that would be 3 quarts into my car's 6-qt sump.
My old oil has 2463 PPM of calcium after almost 5000 miles, ZINC at 1104 PPM and Phoshorous at 981 PPM.

---

You mean 3 ounces?

 

[TomJones76]

I really did mean 3 ounces.
My calculations assumed 3 ounces, too.
I bet it would REALLY have strengthened up my additive pack if I added quarts to a 6-quart sump. Of course, I'd have to drain a whee bit....
By the way, I made a typo.
Here are the REAL before and after numbers:
Calcium: 2463 --> 2521
Zinc: 1104 --> 1138
Phosphorous: 981 --> 1020

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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Why can't more companies make products such as this, that tend to leave the VI alone???

I'd love to see this stuff with a healthy dose of moly DTC or equivalent added.

---

Take a look at SX-UP. There is an analysis in this same section.

 

[Ed_T]

MolaKule at the SF price the PS extender is seriously a greater value.

Is there a way to get the SF product at a competitive price?

 

[reyjay1]

Considering the material used in the SX-Up vs. those in the PS extender, the sX-Up is way above the PS. To make it competititve in price with PS, M would have to cheapen the quality of the product considerably, and then it would not be the same product. I don't think M is in that kind of business.

 

[Terry]

Considering what Mola puts into Specialty Forms products you ARE getting better value Ed_T.

Molakule has supported this site and provided cutting edge educational material here that you can't get in most formulation labs.

Thats value. Support what is a superior product and company.

Keep in mind that just boosting certain adds like ca,zinc,phos,na,mg,etc that are not balanced in the final formula is a crapshoot and too much in chemistry happens unexpectly before the layman realizes it. Especially with NEW common SM/GF4 /CJ4 non organometallic add packs.

 

[UncleRunkle]

I just picked up 6 qts of PS lube extender for 10 bucks...THAT'S value

 

[TallPaul]

UncleRuncle. I don't suppose it is at a chain store that might carry it in the 48 states.