Valvoline 10W-30 SL- All Climate

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Analysis of Valvoline 10W-30 'All Climate' from 1 Qt. retail bottle. Analysis by Herguth Labs.

code:



Oil miles 0

Total Miles 0

--------------------------------------------

TBN: 6.43 mg KOH/g

Vis @100 C: 10.10 cSt

Oxidation: < 2 Abs/cm (Max. 30)

Water (FTIR): < 0.10 %

Nitration: < 2 Abs/cm (Max. 30)

Percent Fuel: < 2.0 %

Glycol: < 0.10 %



Iron: 1

Aluminum: 2

Chromium: < 1

Copper: 1

Lead: < 1

Tin: 1

Nickel: < 1

Silver: < 1

Silicon: 15

Sodium: 1

Manganese: 0

Boron: 5



Zinc: 1071

Phos: 1042

Calcium: 2149

Magnesium: 8

Barium: < 1

Molybdenum: 1

Vanadium: < 1



I was surprised to see a few PPM of Chromium, Iron, etc. show up. I wonder if it's a lab problem, or if the sample actually had these traces of metals.

I opened a new 1 Qt. bottle and poured it directly into the sample bottle, so I don't think I contaminated the sample.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Greg Bohn:

I was surprised to see a few PPM of Chromium, Iron, etc. show up. I wonder if it's a lab problem, or if the sample actually had these traces of metals.

Oops. Make that a few PPM of Iron, Aluminum, Copper, etc.
 
Silicon is also already 15.
shocked.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Silicon is also already 15.
shocked.gif


As far as I understand the Silicon could be from an additive, a contaminant, or even a lab problem.

It would be nice to know which.
 
That fuel percentage is interesting at < 2. Guess they figure anything less then that is okay but still 2 is fairly high in my opinion as a cut off. Could be from .5 to 1.999 I guess.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Spector:
That fuel percentage is interesting at < 2. Guess they figure anything less then that is okay but still 2 is fairly high in my opinion as a cut off. Could be from .5 to 1.999 I guess.

Two percent sounds high to me as well, but this lab has never sent me any results that read other than '
I don't know how closely the percentages actually compare between the two labs, but Blackstone reports as low as '< 0.5%', with a suggested limit of 2%.

Herguth also has a suggested max. of 2%, but apparently the minimum report is 2% as well which doesn't seem like a good thing.
 
Has anyone done a virgin sampling of Maxlife or Durablend or Synpower? I have some maxlife I would like analyzed - how can I contact Terry to have this done?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Greg Bohn:

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Silicon is also already 15.
shocked.gif


As far as I understand the Silicon could be from an additive, a contaminant, or even a lab problem.

It would be nice to know which.


O.k., I sent a sample from the same bottle to Blackstone for comparison, so here's the updated table. The first column is the original results from Herguth. The second column are the Blackstone results.

Silicon seems way lower at Blackstone, so I'm guessing the first sample to Herguth got contaminated somewhere along the way.

But, it also looks like the Calcium, Zinc, and Phosphorous levels read noticibly lower at Blackstone... Now I've got a dillema as to who's numbers are closer to the 'right' answer
confused.gif
.

Time for one more different lab to try and break the tie.

code:



Oil miles 0

Total Miles 0

--------------------------------------------

TBN: 6.43 - mg KOH/g

Vis @100 C: 10.10 cSt

Vis @210 F: - 61.3 SUS

= 10.58 cSt ?



Oxidation: < 2 - Abs/cm (Max. 30)

Water: < 0.10 % 0.0

Nitration: < 2 - Abs/cm (Max. 30)

Insolubles: - 0.0

Percent Fuel: < 2.0 % -

Glycol: < 0.10 % -

Iron: 1 0

Aluminum: 2 0

Chromium: < 1 0

Copper: 1 0

Lead: < 1 0

Tin: 1 0

Nickel: < 1 0

Silver: < 1 0

Silicon: 15 3

Sodium: 1 2

Manganese: 0 0

Boron: 5 4

Zinc: 1071 836

Phos: 1042 735

Calcium: 2149 1655

Magnesium: 8 5

Barium: < 1 1

Molybdenum: 1 0

Vanadium: < 1 -

Titanium: - 0

Potassium: - 0



 
Greg I want to thank you for the testing of this oil and posting the information.
It appears the 2nd Lab not only did not test for metals ,,well I just don't know. It does not appear to be the same oil? Sad the tests are so different. I believe someone else posted a simalar topic as well.
As far as those trace metals,the Phillips Virgin analysis showed those as well,with that came the statement from the Engineer that 10 ppm of the silicon was acceptable and anymore than that was dirt.Some might diagree but I think the trace metals are not a problem,just my opinion.

What the old saying? The third time is the charm?
smile.gif


Are you using this oil presently,or just curious about it?
 
Chris,
I had the thought the bottle should be shook pretty well before pouring into the kit. That is what I did,not knowing what was in there.

I believe there to be a difference in formualated and blended oils as in heated up before packaging. Bob and I have spoke about this before,possible he will see this and chime in his thoughts.
In the past ,I have poured bottles of oil in a engine only to see some of the additives come out last. The brand in the yellow bottle will remain nameless
tongue.gif
Now this has been years back though but got to thinking,I have seen this in some other brands as well.Been awhile though guessing they were corrected in some way

[ October 02, 2002, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
 
The TBN is low but this is a gas passenger car/LT oil and certainly not meant for diesels.

It would be interesting to see how the TBN varied to 5k. If it went from say 6 to 4, it might not be so bad.
 
True but how many miles are on this oil? It is showing moly,I presume from the rings since the virgin oil did not have moly in it. Unless the prior oil had it in the forumaltion
 
quote:

Originally posted by dragboat:
True but how many miles are on this oil? It is showing moly,I presume from the rings since the virgin oil did not have moly in it. Unless the prior oil had it in the forumaltion

The terrible truth comes out
smile.gif
. I had been taking the car to Valvoline for years, but the time before the last oil change I had the oil changed at (of all places) 'Midas' while they were doing other work. That oil had 49 PPM Molybdenum (from a sample right before the last change at Valvoline).

So, how much is wear and how much is left over isn't clear.

As an aside, the real horrible story is that I actually had the oil changed at Midas two times prior to the most recent Valvoline change.

I took my first oil sample ever after what was supposedly 550 miles on the new oil from the more recent of the two Midas changes. The oil looked darker than I expected, and the sample came back with 49 PPM Iron which seemed high.

I immediately had a change done at Valvoline (which I watched). I sampled this oil after about 2,000 miles. That showed 17 PPM Iron.

Going with a rate of 17 parts Iron for 1,955 miles, I figure that 5,764 miles would give me 49 PPM.

If somehow maybe Midas didn't actually change my oil the last time I was there, then I would have actually had 5,596 miles on my '550' mile oil.

Who knows, maybe it's just a coincidence but it makes me wonder
dunno.gif
.
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
The TBN is low but this is a gas passenger car/LT oil and certainly not meant for diesels.

It would be interesting to see how the TBN varied to 5k. If it went from say 6 to 4, it might not be so bad.


The last used analysis with 1,955 miles on it showed a TBN of 4.5 (from Blackstone), and 3.99 (from Herguth).

Presuming that the Valvoline Instant oil change bulk oil is actually the same as the retail stuff I had tested, Herguth shows a TBN of 6.43 on the unused oil.

I didn't spring for Blackstones TBN on the this unused oil
frown.gif
.
 
quote:

Originally posted by dragboat:

...Are you using this oil presently,or just curious about it?


I got looking at this oil because I normally go to a 'Valvoline Instant Oil change' for one of my cars. They claimed that they use the same oil as their retail bottle stuff, only in bulk form.

Since I didn't get a bulk sample from them the last time I had my oil changed, I figured I would buy a regular retail quart bottle and send in a sample.

I figured I could them compare the results of the bottled oil to my used oil analysis too see if the base additives looked similar or not.

What I have now are results from a recent sample of used motor oil sent to both labs (at the same time). I also have results of unused samples of the 'similar' retail bottled oil from the same two labs.

The results for Zinc, Phos, Calcium and Magnesium, as well as some metals from the used results are:

code:

Herguth Herguth Blackstone Blackstone

Unused Used Unused Used

-------------------------------------------------

Zinc: 1,071 1,063 836 952

Phos: 1,042 994 735 792

Calcium: 2,149 2,148 1,655 1,971

Magnesium: 8 17 5 14

Boron: 5
Silicon: 15 18 3 10



Al: 2 5 0 3

Chromium:
Iron: 1 19 0 17

Copper: 1 6 0 5

Lead:
Tin: 1 1 0 1

Molybdenum: 1 17 0 13



So, the Herguth results make the additive parts of the Unused and used oil look very similar. The Blackstone results look less similar (between used and unused) especially in the Calcium numbers.
 
Quote:
"The terrible truth comes out . I had been taking the car to Valvoline for years, but the time before the last oil change I had the oil changed at (of all places) 'Midas' while they were doing other work. That oil had 49 PPM Molybdenum (from a sample right before the last change at Valvoline).)

Out of curiosity was the oil from Midas Pennzoil or Castrol?

Are you sticking with this Valvoline brand or changing because of this?
 
quote:

Originally posted by dragboat:
Quote:
Out of curiosity was the oil from Midas Pennzoil or Castrol?


I don't know what they used, since I didn't ask at the time and I don't remember seeing what they were going to use advertised at the shop. (Although I wasn't looking either).

It was mainly a 'I was there and it needed a change' kind of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by dragboat:
Quote:
Are you sticking with this Valvoline brand or changing because of this?


I'm not sure which 'this' you mean. I went back to Valvoline recently since I wasn't really sure what happened at the local Midas (as far as them possibly not really changing the oil the one time).

I used to mainly drive this car, but now my wife does so she'll probably be taking care of getting the oil changed. She used to go to a 'Jiffy Lube' with the previous car, so I probably will have her go to Valvoline or maybe Jiffy Lube again if the oil tests well.

This car doesn't put on miles that quickly (the 1,955 miles took about three months). Since the oil gets changed every 4 months with 3,000 miles or less on it I figure it (should be) hard to go too far wrong.

I'm toying with the idea of trying a few different oils out, but at the slow rate it racks up miles it could take a while to do any good comparisons.

The last results seemed to show that the TBN was still over 50% of its starting value after running close to the normal time it would be used for. So that part sounded like it would be adequate.

One seemingly good thing is that, after 8 years of taking it VIOC every 3-4 months I've noticed that I can't see any sludge when I look into the oil fill hole in the rocker arm cover (I can see parts of two rocker arms/springs and some of the Cylinder head base on one side of this V-6).

Then again, maybe that's normal with that oil change frequency.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Greg Bohn:
... But, it also looks like the Calcium, Zinc, and Phosphorous levels read noticeably lower at Blackstone... Now I've got a dilemma as to who's numbers are closer to the 'right' answer
confused.gif
.

Time for one more different lab to try and break the tie.


Just got the results back from Oil Analyzers, and the confusion continues. Survey says:
code:



Oil miles 0

Total Miles 0



Herguth Blackstone OAI

------------------------------------------------

TBN: 6.43 - 8.7 mg KOH/g

Vis @100 C: 10.10 10.2 cSt

Vis @210 F: - 61.3 SUS

= 10.58 cSt ?



Oxidation: < 2 - - Abs/cm (Max. 30)



Water: < 0.10 % 0.0 -

Nitration: < 2 - - Abs/cm (Max. 30)

Insolubles: - 0.0 -

Percent Fuel: < 2.0 % - -

Glycol: < 0.10 % - -

Iron: 1 0 0

Aluminum: 2 0 0

Chromium: < 1 0 0

Copper: 1 0 0

Lead: < 1 0 0

Tin: 1 0 0

Nickel: < 1 0 0

Silver: < 1 0 0

Silicon: 15 3 0

Sodium: 1 2 0

Manganese: 0 0 0

Boron: 5 4 38

Zinc: 1071 836 1,328

Phos: 1042 735 1,144

Calcium: 2149 1655 2,642

Magnesium: 8 5 0

Barium: < 1 1 0

Molybdenum: 1 0 0

Vanadium: < 1 - 0

Titanium: - 0 0

Potassium: - 0 -


So, we've got an almost 60% variation from lowest to highest on the additive numbers. So, unless the additives really did separate we have quite the variation between labs.

I'll make another append shortly with the 'used' results I mentioned in a previous post to see if that helps make any more sense of the results.
 
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