Question for all of you 2 stroke oil experts.

[Cujet]

I would like to know a few details about 2 stroke oil and how it is different from other oils.

For instance, regular motor oil starts out as a long chain molecule of a certain length. Is 2 stroke oil a shorter molecule?

What is it about 2 stroke oil that gives it the ability to burn farily well in the combustion chamber as opposed to 30W ND motor oil?

I am looking for a good primer on 2 stroke oils.

Chris

 

[Master ACiD]

30 weight nd was actually recomended as an alternative to 2 cycle oil in certain older 2 strokes,. i had an old 2 stroke honda street bike that said right in the manual that you can use nd30 in place of 2 cycle oil but not to run the engine hard when doing this.

 

[bruce381]

typical 2 stroke oil
has
solvent 30%

base oil 60% (heavy neutral and heavy PIB for anti scuff and low smoke)

dispersants 10%

then mix at a 1-20 ratio with gasoline

so engine see's a low amount of "oil" and the oil will burn off clean NO or not much metalic additives.
bruce

 

[beanoil]

There are as many different 2 stroke oils as there are auto oils. For air cooled, TC apps, a low ash is good, for water cooled TC-W apps, ashless is the ticket, and racing oils are another different breed. Most of the info you seek can be found in MSDS or spec sheets from manufacturers. An entry level 2 stroke lube for , say, a weedeater will be a petroleum base; pretty much what is known as bright stock, a dilutent (kerosene, toluene), a cleaning agent (stoddard solvent) and a dye. Next step up would be a semi synthetic, a mix of synthetic and conventional base, cleaner, dilutent and dye. Synthetics are group III or IV, with a dye, and probably kerosene. There is not as much cleaning agent added, as they burn cleaner. Some racing oils are exotic blends of synthetic and bean oils, like Castrol A747. Others are straight synthetics, and Redline has a group V offering in it's racing/kart formulas. Here are a couple of examples of 2 stroke lubes:

Phillips..
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Hydrotreated Distillate, Middle ..C11-25
CAS# 64742-46-7
35.8%
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Injex Pro
Injex Pro
Appearance: Purple
Physical Form: Liquid
Odor: Mild aromatic petroleum
Intended Use: Two-stroke lubricant
Phillips 66 Company
Lubricants Division
P.O. Box 25316
Santa Ana, CA 92799-5376
800-766-0050
Injex Pro
OTHER COMPONENTS (Percentages by weight)
Limits Agency Type
Additives 36.6%
Lubricant Base Oil (Petroleum) 0-20%
Polybutene 10.4%

The base oil for this product can be a mixture of any of the following highly refined petroleum streams:
CAS 64741-88-4; CAS 64741-89-5; CAS 64741-96-4; CAS 64741-97-5; CAS 64742-01-4; CAS 64742-52-5; CAS
64742-53-6; CAS 64742-54-7; CAS 64742-55-8; CAS 64742-56-9; CAS 64742-57-0; CAS 64742-62-7; CAS
64742-63-8; CAS 64742-65-0; CAS 72623-85-9; CAS 72623-86-0; CAS 72623-87-1

Castrol A747 Racing..

SECTION II: PRODUCT/HAZARDOUS INGREDIENT INFORMATION
10-30% Castor Oil [CASRN 8001-79-4]
10-30% Multifunctional blend consisting of ash less
dispersant, antioxidant and additives
[CASRN NA, mixture]
40-70% Proprietary Synthetic Ester [CASRN NA]

Castrol Act-Evo..

SECTION II: PRODUCT/HAZARDOUS INGREDIENT INFORMATION
10-20% Multi-functional additive blend consisting of
ashless dispersant, anti -oxidant, synthetic
diester, and pour point depressant [CASRN
NA, mixture]
60-100% Severely refined petroleum basestocks ,
petroleum hydrocarbons, and synthetic
hydrocarbons. May contain one or more of the
following CASRN; 64742 -47 -8, 64742-54-7,
64741-95-4, 64741 -88 -4, 9003-29-6

As you look at the individual components, you'll begin to see similarities in 2 stroke oils from different manufacturers. The Castrol Act-Evo, and Lucas Racing 2 cycle are virtual clones of each other. Castrol TTS is Act-Evo with another petroleum distillate pack added. The famed Mobil MX2T is a great oil, but there is little info on it's composition. There is a thread regarding it here on BITOG. A 2 cycle lube has a unique job. Pick the right oil for the right application, and you can have good luck with several of them. Pick the wrong one, and you can have short engine life, ring wear, blowby past the piston ring, scored cylinders, and other issues. For any app requiring TC, try MX2T. For injector apps, Castrol TTS is a fine oil. Redline is very good for very high RPM kart motors. A747 is almost unbeatable for a vintage air cooled motocross machine. Good luck on your search.

 

[Cujet]

Thanks for the info guys! As some of you are aware, years ago I took part in some 2 stroke oil testing for a boat race team sponsored by a major engine manufacturer. While this was not an end all test, it was informative. My part was the "use and test" part (technician). Others did anylsis on the results.

So, I think can make informed decisions on what to use. However I wanted to know why or how the base lubricant is different from other base oils. In particular, why a particular base component is used (maybe combustion qualities).

Thanks again for the information! Keep it coming!

Chris

 

[Cujet]

A technicians point of view:

Our oil test was based on previous reports showing greater HP with higher oil concentrations. We tested only quality oils.

My recolection of high output race outboard engine oil test results are as follows:

1) More oil results in more HP.
2) Different brands and types have only minor differences in HP.
3) 32 to 1 is enough oil to protect an engine under nearly all conditions.
4) 100 to 1 does not provide race levels of protection and clearly produces less output.
5) We settled on 16 to 1 as the best combo of HP output, throttle response and overall quality of performance.
6) There was slight improvment in output with more oil than 16 to 1, however other problems occured, expecially at low output levels.

Chris

 

[carock]

Will running high oil ratios like 16/1 cause the engine to coke up with a modern synthetic like Redline racing oil? My Vespa is prone to siezing at wide open throttle. Some extra lube would help me feel more secure.

 

[wileyE]

cujet, were you testing only tcw3 oils? injector or premix only "race" oils?

 

[Jaybird]

From the MX2T MSDS:

CHEMICAL NAMES AND SYNONYMS: SYN. HYDROCARBONS AND ADDITIVES

GLOBALLY REPORTABLE MSDS INGREDIENTS:
Substance Name Approx. Wt%
-------------- -----------
HYDROTREATED LIGHT
DISTILLATE (64742-47-8) 15-25%

OTHER INGREDIENTS:

Substance Name Approx. Wt%
-------------- -----------
HYDROXYALKYL CARBOXYLIC ESTER 35-45%

 

[Cujet]

It is my opinion that one should stay away from Redline Racing Oil at all costs. In many cases, it results in corroded brass (jets and such) and internal engine corrosion. It also leaves a good number of black goo globs in the bottom of the fuel tank/cans. This goo is about impossible to remove. The result is short engine life and difficult jetting. Not what you are looking for in a two stroke oil.

Carok, try Mobil 1 2t racing oil at high ratio's. you may get slightly more power and certainly it will protect your engine.

Chris

Yes, we tested TCW-III oils. We also tested a few other oils such as Bel-Ray MC-1 and Golden Spectro. (remember, this was many years ago).

Premix only.

Chris