I dont know what year your low rider is but the new 06 dyna models all run great. I wasn't a fan of harley going to O2 sensors and fuel injection with no carb option but test rides proved me wrong! The stock 06 dyna runs better then older ones with exhaust and jet kits.
Harley Syn3 or Amsoil
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Fuel injection, especially when combined with Oxygen sensors in the exhaust, is a great update. With a fuel mixture enricher, you can safely enrich to correct lower rpm power loss from non-stock open pipes, those bikes with ECU's that use oxygen sensors can usually enrich enough on their own so that you don't have to add an enriching device. Much easier than fooling with shims and needles in a carb. Harley did a good thing following the Metric market's use of fuel injection...see, another example of competition making each better.
BTW, until everyone begins to use only petroleum Derived, Processed, Refined, and Delivered from USA soil, I don't want to hear any complaining that a "Japanese bike" is "un-American". With Harleys having 15% (or is it more now?) of their parts manufactured overseas, it's just protectionism run rampant that makes people think Harley is better because it's made in USA.
Actually, Harley IS being more "American" by using overseas parts, because "America" IS the Melting Pot of the world.
(I use "America" in quotes, because I think the term is snobby, since it doesn't recognize that there is North America, Central and South America.)
BTW, until everyone begins to use only petroleum Derived, Processed, Refined, and Delivered from USA soil, I don't want to hear any complaining that a "Japanese bike" is "un-American". With Harleys having 15% (or is it more now?) of their parts manufactured overseas, it's just protectionism run rampant that makes people think Harley is better because it's made in USA.
Actually, Harley IS being more "American" by using overseas parts, because "America" IS the Melting Pot of the world.
(I use "America" in quotes, because I think the term is snobby, since it doesn't recognize that there is North America, Central and South America.)
I have the 2006 Dyna and it is superior with all the updated technology. I ordered a screaming eagle race tuner for it so I can put some slip on exhausts and hi performance air cleaner then add some larger cvo fuel injectors and have it dyno tuned in all ranges. Thats what I like about these new bikes. You can get a few upgrades to the EFI system and tune them very close to perfection and they still pass emission testing. BTW, I am an automotive consultant and there is no "American" anything anymore. My Suburban was assembled in Mexico aand my buddys Honda Ridgeline has 75% North American content. Go figure
Kb, The slip-ons and air cleaner will run great, but the injectors are overkill. We build big bore (103-113ci) motors all the time and tune them with race tuners. None of those bikes have any lean problems usng the fuel maps with the race tuner.
Some guys install the bigger bore throttle bodies but unless you run 4,500 RPM or higher ALL the time don't waste yor money.
Some guys install the bigger bore throttle bodies but unless you run 4,500 RPM or higher ALL the time don't waste yor money.
*laughs* Well, Motoman's results speak for themselves. Did you look at the pistons on the bikes that were broken in differently? If bearings are going to be damaged by hard running without "break-in", I'd be very concerned about the engine blowing up anyhow. Ball bearings are as smooth as they are ever going to get when you take them out of the box; plain bearings never touch the journals except possibly at start-up, and don't ever "break in" in the sense of metal-to-metal wear. That's exactly what you *don't* want. I've broken in dozens of engines using his method, and not a single one of them has ever had a wear-related problem in terms of shortened lifespan when compared against other examples of its make and model.
On to EFI... Most EFI-equipped bikes with O2 sensors do not have open-loop offset trim tables to adjust fueling over time to compensate for injector cleanliness or fuel pump degradation. And running in closed-loop mode is substantially leaner than full-throttle acceleration, so I'm not sure where the idea comes from that a bike will richen itself to compensate for engine mods. Even bikes that trip their open-loop maps based on expected fueling in closed-loop mode cannot compensate for engine, intake or exhaust mods. All need remapping in some fashion to get the best out of them (whatever the best happens to be for you; ridability, fuel economy, power, emissions, or some combination thereof).
You can learn a very great deal about motorcycle EFI and how it works by reading my book. It will take you through not only a complete understanding of EFI systems and aftermarket devices and how they work, but will give you an excellent high-level tuner's understanding of four-stroke principles and gas flow into and out of the combustion chamber, as well as a solid understanding of what goes on inside the combustion chamber when the valves are both closed (and it's quite different than "conventional wisdom" would suggest).
As to larger injectors, if you build an engine to make more than about 10% more power than stock, you'll likely have to do something to increase fuel flow. Going to bigger injectors will mean your idle quality will decrease, and your roll-on from cruise will probably deteriorate a bit as well. Unless, of course, you switch to peak-and-hold injectors (low impedance_, but those need a different injector driver circuit to function as P&H injectors, and you'd need a different ECU or some kind of a "black box" between ECU and injectors. If you raise fuel pressure you can get more fuel delivery, but you may end up running rich at idle and part-throttle cruise because your minimum fueling volume goes up proportionally with your increase in fuel pressure. Adding a second set of "staged" injectors is a third possibility, but it even more complex than the other ideas, and usually more costly as well.
If you're building a motor that is substantially more powerful than stock, don't forget that you may well need a higher capacity fuel pump once you get the injector/fuel metering issues sorted out. Most fuel pumps can only deliver 15% more volume than max stock fueling, give or take (mostof that is to account for a loss in pump efficiency over the life of the pump). If the pump cannot supply sufficient fuel volume at max power, fuel rail pressure will drop after a little while at max power, leaning the engine out until there's not enough fuel vapor to reliably ignite and the engine quits.
On to EFI... Most EFI-equipped bikes with O2 sensors do not have open-loop offset trim tables to adjust fueling over time to compensate for injector cleanliness or fuel pump degradation. And running in closed-loop mode is substantially leaner than full-throttle acceleration, so I'm not sure where the idea comes from that a bike will richen itself to compensate for engine mods. Even bikes that trip their open-loop maps based on expected fueling in closed-loop mode cannot compensate for engine, intake or exhaust mods. All need remapping in some fashion to get the best out of them (whatever the best happens to be for you; ridability, fuel economy, power, emissions, or some combination thereof).
You can learn a very great deal about motorcycle EFI and how it works by reading my book. It will take you through not only a complete understanding of EFI systems and aftermarket devices and how they work, but will give you an excellent high-level tuner's understanding of four-stroke principles and gas flow into and out of the combustion chamber, as well as a solid understanding of what goes on inside the combustion chamber when the valves are both closed (and it's quite different than "conventional wisdom" would suggest).
As to larger injectors, if you build an engine to make more than about 10% more power than stock, you'll likely have to do something to increase fuel flow. Going to bigger injectors will mean your idle quality will decrease, and your roll-on from cruise will probably deteriorate a bit as well. Unless, of course, you switch to peak-and-hold injectors (low impedance_, but those need a different injector driver circuit to function as P&H injectors, and you'd need a different ECU or some kind of a "black box" between ECU and injectors. If you raise fuel pressure you can get more fuel delivery, but you may end up running rich at idle and part-throttle cruise because your minimum fueling volume goes up proportionally with your increase in fuel pressure. Adding a second set of "staged" injectors is a third possibility, but it even more complex than the other ideas, and usually more costly as well.
If you're building a motor that is substantially more powerful than stock, don't forget that you may well need a higher capacity fuel pump once you get the injector/fuel metering issues sorted out. Most fuel pumps can only deliver 15% more volume than max stock fueling, give or take (mostof that is to account for a loss in pump efficiency over the life of the pump). If the pump cannot supply sufficient fuel volume at max power, fuel rail pressure will drop after a little while at max power, leaning the engine out until there's not enough fuel vapor to reliably ignite and the engine quits.
Superglide: There is a TSB (m1185)out on the 8 degree injectors for 1st half of 06 Dyna production which includes my bike. It does run lean and the Dynas made after 02/15 will all have the 25 degree fuel injectors which is part #27709-06A which is an updated part with 6 spray holes versus 3. Recommended for any stage1 upgrades and I am getting them free anyway from HD.
I'm only going to Stage1 the bike. The injectors are an upgrade see: HD TSB M-1185. The race tuner on a dyno will custom map the bike to run the way I desire in all ranges. Takes about 3-4 hours for the complete set up but very nice. I expect to get about 10% more HP that's all. I am really looking to smooth out all the rough edges on current factory performance. I have had a couple of people I know do the same and really like the results. Makes your Harley run smooth like a metric with the Harley sound.BTW, I still think MOTOMAN is nuts.
"My Suburban was assembled in Mexico"
Off topic I know, but Suburbans (and Yukon XL) are also made in Arlington Texas. Sorry you got a Mexican one, but you should have checked the VIN before buying. Not that it's a bad thing - they have good quality out of the Mexican plants.
Off topic I know, but Suburbans (and Yukon XL) are also made in Arlington Texas. Sorry you got a Mexican one, but you should have checked the VIN before buying. Not that it's a bad thing - they have good quality out of the Mexican plants.
Forgot! - On topic now -- I do not like the Syn 3 at all. Worked awful as a "3 hole" oil when I tried it in my Duece. The trans shifted hard and clunky - well clunker than normal for a HD! Anyhow -I use Mobil 1 in the engine, Mobil 1 Axle fluid in the Trans and Harleys new Primary fluid in the primary in my duece and my wifes Dyna lowrider.
The Syn3 is no good for the trans. I'm using Redline Shockproof Heavy in the trans and it works well. I'm switching to Mobil1Vtwon 20w50 after my break-in is finished in the engine & primary and Redline still for the trans. My suburban is ok from Mexico quality of assembly is good but I got a 5.3L piston slapper now with 71,000 on the clock and it is starting to idle hard when cold. But did get a 125,000 mile warranty so I'm covered!
Actually, the word is "poseur", not "poser". "Poseur" is actually a French word that we have stolen to use in English, though many now mis-spell it in North America.
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
John.
I have a 2006 Dyna Lowrider, with the stage 1 air filter, SEII slip-ons and reflash. I also have the 8 degree injectors. Mine runs great no lean condition. If you have the 8's and have stalling problems, etc. then HD will change them to the 25's while your under the 2 year warranty. But they won't change them if your bike is running good. A lot of talk about this on the Vtwin site. Most techies feel that you are better off with the 8's and stage 1 that I have then changing to the 25's. Better performance. All I know is my bike runs perfect from start-up to redline. I also run Syn3 in all 3 holes. The new dynos have a larger oil pump and the 6 speed is a redesighed transmission so I don't think we can compare them to the older HD models.
Yeah, the bike is certainly updated but I'm getting the 25 degree injectors next week because I am starting to get the classic cold stall & hot stall issues associated with the 8's. BTW, I tried the redline shockproof heavy gear oil in the trans and really like the feel over the syn3. I'm going to try the MTL in the primary after my first service.
At what mileage did this problem start happening?
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