'05 Honda Rancher 350ES and cold Dakota Weather

[02supercrew]

Hey all!

I've got a bit of a problem.

I recently purchased a Honda Rancher 350 and I'm now coming up on the (it has 15hrs) 20hr OCI and Valve adjustment.

So far it still has the Honda 10-40 factory fill.

With the cold temps (as I speak we've reached a high of -1 F) I feel that this 10-40 is not cutting the mustard.....and I have yet to see the oil cooler fan come on. Recently it reached -13F and it was dang near impossible to get the motor rolled over.

I've tried to ride it some good amounts 2-3 hrs to get it broke in.

I pulled the dipstick and the oil is a murky grayish color and smells of gasoline.

I'm in need of a oil that can satisfy the warranty but can crank easy at low temps (I'm talking -20s if need be) and also not affect the wet clutch.

This machine pulls a 4x6 trailer and is going to be used to rescue newborn baby calves that have been dropped in snowbanks and such, so I have to have a machine that starts easy.

I'm thinking of trying either M1 0-40 European or Rotella T syn 5-40...any suggestions???

 

[02supercrew]

quote:

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Originally posted by Brett Miller:
Do you have a Polaris Dealer nearby? They use a high quality 0W-40 in their 4 strokes that is about $5-6 quart.

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Yes I do, but I thought that polaris uses a different tranny setup, i.e. no wet clutch?

 

[tmorris1]

quote:

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Originally posted by 02supercrew:

quote:

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Originally posted by Brett Miller:
Do you have a Polaris Dealer nearby? They use a high quality 0W-40 in their 4 strokes that is about $5-6 quart.

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Yes I do, but I thought that polaris uses a different tranny setup, i.e. no wet clutch?

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They used to have a manual shift with a wet clutch that used the same OW40 oil, so I believe it is safe for wet clutches. I use the Amsoil 0W40 in my Polaris. My Polaris dealer sells the stuff, and around here Mills Fleet Farm sells it also if you have one in your area.
My friend has a Honda Foreman and it is cold blooded, as is most Hondas that I have seen.

 

[02supercrew]

It does start when its cold out, but I usually have to choke it pretty hard for a good minute or two.

I'll have to check out the polaris stuff, might serve me really good.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Jon]

A couple of things.

1. To satisfy the EPA, most ATVs are jetting funky. Have a *reputable* shop rejet it. That makes a huge difference. My Honda (and '85 with more miles/hours on it than you would believe), just got it's FIRST work done ever and it runs like new. Mine has not been rejetted (well, it has been with stock jets only because of wear - back in '85 the EPA wasn't cranky).

2. Amsoil 5W-40 or 0W-40. It rocks.

3. Run the livin crap out of it.

4. My oil cooler almost NEVER comes on. Especially in Hondas, they are used as a last line (not the same as a last resort).

 

[02supercrew]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon:
A couple of things.

1. To satisfy the EPA, most ATVs are jetting funky. Have a *reputable* shop rejet it. That makes a huge difference. My Honda (and '85 with more miles/hours on it than you would believe), just got it's FIRST work done ever and it runs like new. Mine has not been rejetted (well, it has been with stock jets only because of wear - back in '85 the EPA wasn't cranky).

2. Amsoil 5W-40 or 0W-40. It rocks.

3. Run the livin crap out of it.

4. My oil cooler almost NEVER comes on. Especially in Hondas, they are used as a last line (not the same as a last resort).

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Thanks for the tip!!

This is my first ATV, but I'm very familiar with motorcycles...I guess they are "essentially" the same with the exception of wheels and some other details.

Any body have any thoughts on using M1's Truck and Suv 5w40??

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Truck_SUV_5W-40.asp

It has a SJ rating, which would be enough to meet honda's requirements (as per the owners manual)(this is very important to me), and appears to be a pretty stout oil.

I'm really also liking the M1 0-40 as it also appears to be a SJ rated oil.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-40.asp

Any thoughts?

[ January 04, 2005, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: 02supercrew ]

 

[Brett Miller]

Hondas are cold blooded by nature. The Mobil 1 5W-40 would also be a great choice.

 

[JonS]

Amsoil sells a 0w-40 that i would think would be excellent in cold weather. It is available at our bike shops here for around $6/qrt. What is the breakin time before you can go to syn? What do the dealers say?

 

[02supercrew]

quote:

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Originally posted by JonS:
Amsoil sells a 0w-40 that i would think would be excellent in cold weather. It is available at our bike shops here for around $6/qrt. What is the breakin time before you can go to syn? What do the dealers say?

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Thanks for the quick reply

They claim the break in time is 20 hrs, I i dunno if they reccomend a synthetic. There is no way I'm going to wait 5 more hours, especially the way the oil looks now.

I was thinking a synthetic (i'm not dead set on it) becuase of the hard starting and it most likely will not reach operation temps all that often.

I should mention that I'm not interested in a Amsoil oil as it is very dificult to get in my area, and I need some thing that I can pick up on relatively short notice.

 

[Brett Miller]

Do you have a Polaris Dealer nearby? They use a high quality 0W-40 in their 4 strokes that is about $5-6 quart.

 

[tmorris1]

The Honda ATV clutches are pretty picky about oil from what I am told, so I personally wouldn't use the M1 0W40 or the 5W40 because you will probably get clutch slip. If the M1 15W50 red cap has friction modifiers, I would guess that the 40Wts would too. Someone also told me that many Honda dealers say not to use a synthetic in these atvs because of the clutch, but I suspect this is misinformed techs. Virtually any oil you buy today is rated SJ, that is an older spec. Any SL or SM oil is also rated SJ and any previous specs.

I would try to find the Polaris or Amsoil 0W40 for your climate, they both work great for me in MN and then you won't have to worry about your clutch. I am currently using the 0W40 in my Honda dirt bike with a wet clutch.

 

[02supercrew]

I know of a local parts house that "may" have some amsoil products, I'll have to stop by and look at it.

Are the Polaris and Amsoil 0-40's conventionals???

If so, wouldn't they have to have a boat load of VI improvers?

This is why I'm leaning towards a syn if I can find it.

 

[resslera]

Wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Mobil 1 5w40. IT DOES NOT HAVE MOLY. You can see this by looking at all the VOEs posted on this site. Many say it is very similar if not the same as Mobil Delvac-1. The 5w40 carries the Diesel CI-4 rating like the Delvac which is the only Mobil 1 that carries it.

 

[tmorris1]

quote:

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Originally posted by 02supercrew:
I know of a local parts house that "may" have some amsoil products, I'll have to stop by and look at it.

Are the Polaris and Amsoil 0-40's conventionals???

If so, wouldn't they have to have a boat load of VI improvers?

This is why I'm leaning towards a syn if I can find it.

---

Both are synthetic oils for about $6 a qt.

 

[tmorris1]

quote:

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Originally posted by resslera:
Wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Mobil 1 5w40. IT DOES NOT HAVE MOLY. You can see this by looking at all the VOEs posted on this site. Many say it is very similar if not the same as Mobil Delvac-1. The 5w40 carries the Diesel CI-4 rating like the Delvac which is the only Mobil 1 that carries it.

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That very well could be, but I don't think it is just moly that can cause the clutch to slip. That clutch slip is a nasty feeling, and for about the same price you can get an oil that is proven to work.

 

[02supercrew]

Update:

Upon looking at my manual, I found that any 10wXX is not reccomended for my '05 Honda for temps below +15F. A 5w30 is to be used for temps of 90F and lower.
10w30 can be used for temps between +15F and 90F, and a 10w40 is reccomended for +15F too infinity. It also mentions that 20w40 and 20w50 can be used for temps above 30F.

It also says word for word, "Suggested oils include Pro Honda GN4 (garbage oil) or HP4 (without moly additives) 4-stroke oil (US and Canada), or a Honda 4-stroke oil (Canada only), or an equivalent motorcycle oil."*

* "Suggested oil are equal in performance to SJ oils that are not labeled as energy conserving on the API service label."

It also goes on to say specifically not to use a oil that is "energy conserving".

Not one mention as too not using a synthetic.

If I'm following this correctly I would think that any oil that was not labeled as energy conserving would be perfectly fine as along as it did not have moly in it.

 

[T-Keith]

With a lot of the diesel oils adding moly, that might be kind of hard.

 

[02supercrew]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
With a lot of the diesel oils adding moly, that might be kind of hard.

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I agree.

But upon looking at the VOA section for M1 5-40 Truck and Suv, shows no moly in the current formulation.

M1 0-40 Euro and 0-30 are no longer in the running due to pretty good doses of moly.

Amsoil 0-40 is proving to be a hard find in my neck of the woods.

The Polaris dealer ship is out of stock on 0-40 Polaris oil.

So, chances are I will be going with M1's 5-40 T&SUVn or Delvac 1. Might still go with Rotella T syn.

 

[02supercrew]

On a hail mary pass, I was able to find some amsoil 0w40 4 stroke oil at a little off the beaten path auto shop.

At 3 qts for $20...this stuff had better be worth it's weight in gold!

Thanks for all the help!

 

[T-Keith]

Mobil 5w40 looks good but it seems a little expensive. I guess it's a small amount though.

I have a 84 Honda ATC200 that I would love to get back out some day I just don't have the time. Still fires on the first pull though.