Harley-Davidson Motor Oil

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
232
Location
Norwich CT
My brother just bought a 2002 883R and the owner's manual calls for a 20w-50 or 15w-40 CG or CH rated diesel oil if the Harley brand motor oil is not available.
Two questions, what is so magical about Harley oil, and why would they recommend
a diesel oil over a quality SH gasser oil? Surely its not soot control.
burnout.gif
 
I think the reason is mostly if you buy a Hog, the manufactuer knows that most riders would want to stick with 'genuine Hog oil', its a name thing on that part, not to say its not a good oil, I am sure it is, but in this case its just the name. I also believe the reason it allows use of the 'diesel oil', is becasue Hogs run at low RPM during cruise, much like a diesel, and heat generated in a slow-revving V twin is not unlike that produced by the slow-revving high compression Diesel.
 
As I shared with you over at the TDI site, the Mobil 1 V-Twin is simply superb in the Harley. The problem with a 50W is cool crank, flow. With the full synthetic Mobil 1 50W, it flows down to waaay below zero, providing immediate oil flow on start-up, then a full 50W while operating. Plus, with an air cooled engine relying on oil for 40% or more of its cooling, the full synthetic will provide a much higher rate of heat transfer resulting in a much cooler running Harley.. Which spells longer life... Plus it is available from avlube.com , a Bobis the Oil Guy participant! :)
George Morrison, STLE CLS
 
quote:

Originally posted by WOOCHOW:
My brother just bought a 2002 883R and the owner's manual calls for a 20w-50 or 15w-40 CG or CH rated diesel oil if the Harley brand motor oil is not available.
Two questions, what is so magical about Harley oil, and why would they recommend
a diesel oil over a quality SH gasser oil? Surely its not soot control.
burnout.gif


WOOCHOW,

There is many reasons why so many people take such different sides on oils. In the case you're talking about, they are suggesting a thicker oil with higher levels of antiwear/ antiscuffing additives such as the zddp.

Motor cylce oils in general have these higher level of antiwear additives where as the newer gaser oils as you put it, SJ and SL are considerably lower in those additives because of epa and cat converter damage concerns on cars.

These additives are the last line of defense when the base oil shears which happens quite commonly in motorcycles due to the higher rpms and normally the higher heat produced because of being just air cooled. This in one reason why they suggest a higher viscosity oil as well so it takes more to shear the oil out between moving surfaces. Obviously, cold weather isn't much of a concern as not many people will ever ride a bike in 0 or sub 0 weather. I know I never will! So the thicker oil is providing a slight advantage over a thinner one and obviously they feel that a 20w50 is sufficient for flow purposes.

The SH gasser oils also provided higher levels of antiwear but no longer available due to the newer sj/sl certifications.

Now, as an alternative, the cg/ch rated diesel oils are not included in the lowering of antiwear additives as they do not have a cat converter to worry about, therefore, most have the higher levels of antiwear additives like motor cylce oils.

When choosing an oil for a new vehicle, it is always advisable to use the suggested viscosity. In the case of a m/c the only time the api cert's are an issue is if you decide to use something other than a m/c oil. Mobil does have a full synth m/c oil, but I'm not sure what it comes in as for viscosity. amsoil appears to have a full synth mc oil as well.

I myself, use a blend in my harley but it is not classified as a m/c oil. it has a different type of additive that replaces the lower levels of antiwear that were taken out.

Most of the diesel oils that are ch rated, are mineral based. They will provide adaquate protection as long as you don't go wild and extend your oil drains. A full synth will provide you a longer drain interval if you don't like changing it.

Hope that helps.
 
I first heard about Schaeffer's from a friend of mine who has several Harley's, including a Shovelhead Hardtail, and an Evo Springer Softail.

He asked me to look it up, and I let him know it was not snakeoil.

It is getting a following among Harley owners.
 
quote:

Originally posted by VaderSS:
I first heard about Schaeffer's from a friend of mine who has several Harley's, including a Shovelhead Hardtail, and an Evo Springer Softail.

He asked me to look it up, and I let him know it was not snakeoil.

It is getting a following among Harley owners.


Vader, can't argue with that since that's what I use as well
grin.gif
 
Thanks guys, that pretty much answers my question. I understand why, but find it odd, that the oils with the newer API classifications are actually less effective as lubrication that the older oils. Is this true of the new diesel classification CI? Are the older CH-4 and CG-4's better lubrication? George, thanks for the reply in the TDI forum also.
 
The big reason(s) that older oils actually contain more barrier additive levels is they didn't have cat converters back then. Now with the newer ones, manufactures have decieded along with epa groups and such that the zddp is a problem in cars to cats and emmissions, therfore lowering the only additive that seems to effect this but also seems to effect that wear protection. Makes you kinda wonder. Consider this, Amsoil has stood fast on the priciple of not lowering those additives but actually has a
higher amount of these additives. Now let me state, this does not make it a better oil because of this, but they are not falling down either. So far, I have not seen any evidence to support the manufactures claims to cat damage due to this. Now on the other hand, the emmissions side may very well be out of balance due to this, but alot of this is due to an older engine that is burning oil as well.

Remember what the manufacture sells.... parts not cars. The faster it wears the more parts sold.

Another tid bit many are not aware of (except on here mostly) that there was and still is a proposal to reduce those same antiwear additives another 50% on the next api requirements. It would have happened mid year but oil manufactures knew they couldn't do it and stay compatible with the older cars. Right now, only a couple could qualify, m1 SS being one of them.

Don't get caught up with this idea that synth's will protect better in a m/c theory as many harley dealerships and mechanics will tell you all sorts of horor stories of needle bearings flat spot'd and they tend to blame the oil being full synth. This isn't true as it's not the base oil that is doing this. This is one reason I don't believe IMO that a full synth base oil can provide better wear protection than a mineral base oil. Because many think that if it's a full synth it protects better so many used that, most of the time it was mobil's full synth but not always. The key was the lower antiwear additives with the newer api certified oils that were mainly causing this problem with needle bearings in the harley's. Now steping back, it is the shearing effect on the hydrodynamic properties of the oil and of course they were api certified and it would cause the wear flat spoting because the last line of defense was not there to provide the needed protection. This also can happen using a newer mineral api cert oil as well, not just synth's. Reason is those antiwear additive levels were not sufficent to keep the wear to min's. This is one of the reasons some bikes want the thicker oil so to maintain better film strenght between the parts and not having to rely on barrier additives as much.

As for the newer CI-4 oils, they are every bit as good as the older cf-4's. They had to increase the oils ability to handle higher heat and soot loads due to new emmissions being imposed on the big trucks. At this time, they mainly concentrated on increaseing the quality of the base oil with some basic improvements on additives over the older oils. I don't know if mobil is CI-4 rated or not. I know Schaeffers has been CI-4 rated back at the beginning of the year and may have been sooner but not sure exactly when.
 
Bob
D1 exceeded CI-4 & SL way back with 'old' formulation. New PDS shows some changes. TBN now 12 re 11. Flash and pour not as good. I see it now meets Volvo VDS-3, Global DH-1, and JASO DH-1. I heard VDS-3 was going to be tough, don't know anything about DH-1 though??

s
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top