Here it is!!! First TGMO 0W-16 UOA 2018 I4 Camry

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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
My opinion,coming from a brand new car with only 4000 miles on it,there are absolutely zero wear metals!! I think it looks great!


Zero wear metals? You're kidding right?
 
Now I'm wondering if the 0W-20 will have a detrimental effect on the variable volume oil pump. Oh, why do we over think so much!
 
Originally Posted By: kaminski54
Now I'm wondering if the 0W-20 will have a detrimental effect on the variable volume oil pump. Oh, why do we over think so much!

No problem. The variable volume oil pump simply adjusts oil mass flow rate according to engine demand instead of being strictly linear with RPM like old-style oil pumps. They use a closed loop feedback to trim, adjust, and keep the oil pressure in the right range for the conditions, so any small 0w20 viscosity effects will be adjusted for.
 
Originally Posted By: kaminski54
Could you explain why you'd choose a 0W-16. I don't quite under understand.


Because the Japanese wanted to use thinner oils, but were hampered by the SAE J300 table, they went for a "solution" that included light basestocks, stratospheric viscosity indexes, through the use of VII polymers, and at least a few of them were known to shear down to the HTHS of a (now) 16 in a couple hundred miles. They also bolstered them with a lot of additive.

They lobbied the API to drop the TEOST (deposit tests) for 0W20, and that grade only (not even 5W20, or 0W16) to allow for the more deposit prone oil.

When they got the lighter grades through the system, they could actually do what they wanted to do in the first place. The oils have lower Viscosity Index, much less VII, and have to pass the same deposit tests as the rest of the oils do.

That's why in a Japanese car that specced 0W16, I'd be comfortable with that grade.

As to the oil pump, Oil Film Movies is right. bearings need less oil if it's thicker. Traditionally that flow would go out the relief valve, wasting 10s of watts of crankshaft power...now the pump adjusts volume based on the pressure signal it gets.
 
Originally Posted By: vq40
yeah, Amalie makes that garbage.
Great. Glad you're aware. Got any VOA/UOA (or any data) to show us why you refer to it as "garbage"? Really interested. Also German company Ravenol makes 0w16, not made by Eneos or Idemitsu either.
 
Originally Posted By: Vladiator
Originally Posted By: vq40
you do realize that the only 2 companies that produce 0w16 is idemitsu, and eneos. Toyotas factory fill is eneos. In japan, Toyota has been using 0w16 for years, and are currently using 0w8. https://noln.net/2017/06/30/skinny-ow-16-oil/
You do realize that AAP sells Car Quest 0w-16 oil and it is not made by either of companies you just listed?

Add http://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/...-sae-0w-16.html to that list of 0w16's available.
See my post above. Boundary lubrication in 0w16 is strong since they fear a lot of it happening in a thin-oil spec'ed engine.
 
my bad I see where the hiccup is, I meant 0w8 is only made by eneos, and idemitsu. but I see now that even more companies have 0w8 as well. Lowest I have seen is 0w5 which is for nascar. 0w16 is made by several, we produce a mobil super as well in 0w16. Germany has been using 0w16 oils for a long time as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: vq40
yeah, Amalie makes that garbage.


I don't recall seeing that oil evaluation before.
50.gif
 
Not only is this the first TGMO 0W-16 UOA but it's the only 0W-16 UOA to date.

I've had an interest in how Toyota formulates this oil since is was released and was hoping for a comprehensive VOA perhaps from PQIA but nothing to-date.
So this UOA and the MSDS kinematic viscosity spec's will have to do which are as follows:
KV40 30.08 cSt
KV100 6.72 cSt
VI 191

This oil is simply TGMO 0W-20 with less Viscosity Index Improvers lowering the HTHS viscosity @150C from 2.6 cP to 2.3 cP.
That's a significant drop in VI, but at 191 it's still way higher than any other 0W-16 and therefore it is the lightest 0W-16 at typical start-up temp's.
The only oil on par is also made by Mobil, their Mobil Super Syn 0W-16 which has the same viscosity spec's (it's the same oil) but with a less robust additive pac'.
In the decade TGMO 0W-20 has been on the market it has established a reputation for good shear stability so TGMO 0W-16 should be bullet proof.

For vehicles that are spec'd the 0W-16 grade, at least here in North America,TGMO 0W-16 has to be the oil of choice, any other 0W-16 is even heavier than TGMO 0W-20 at typical start-up temp's which largely erases any fuel economy advantage it might otherwise have.
Ironically the only oil lighter than TGMO 0W-16 on start-up is the expensive Eneos Racing Street 0W-20 with a KV40 of only 28 cSt and CCS of 3400 cP.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
When we have an engine go over 60K on 0w20. Ill start trusting it. So far no luck out of 4 cars in the past decade. Mine gets driven hard the wife's get driven "normally' but it's not garaged in the Winter and will see lots of sub freezing starts with minimal warmup.


Really poor quality cars can make 60K with melted butter in sump. What the [censored] are you doing to your cars to kill them before 60K? Whatever you're doing it isn't the 0W-20.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
When we have an engine go over 60K on 0w20. Ill start trusting it.

Traded my 2014 Civic with 78k miles using 0W20 with no issues. My 2013 CRV has 73k miles only using 0W20, so I guess you can start trusting it.
 
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Originally Posted by CATERHAM
Not only is this the first TGMO 0W-16 UOA but it's the only 0W-16 UOA to date.

I've had an interest in how Toyota formulates this oil since is was released and was hoping for a comprehensive VOA perhaps from PQIA but nothing to-date.
So this UOA and the MSDS kinematic viscosity spec's will have to do which are as follows:
KV40 30.08 cSt
KV100 6.72 cSt
VI 191

This oil is simply TGMO 0W-20 with less Viscosity Index Improvers lowering the HTHS viscosity @150C from 2.6 cP to 2.3 cP.
That's a significant drop in VI, but at 191 it's still way higher than any other 0W-16 and therefore it is the lightest 0W-16 at typical start-up temp's.
The only oil on par is also made by Mobil, their Mobil Super Syn 0W-16 which has the same viscosity spec's (it's the same oil) but with a less robust additive pac'.
In the decade TGMO 0W-20 has been on the market it has established a reputation for good shear stability so TGMO 0W-16 should be bullet proof.

For vehicles that are spec'd the 0W-16 grade, at least here in North America,TGMO 0W-16 has to be the oil of choice, any other 0W-16 is even heavier than TGMO 0W-20 at typical start-up temp's which largely erases any fuel economy advantage it might otherwise have.
Ironically the only oil lighter than TGMO 0W-16 on start-up is the expensive Eneos Racing Street 0W-20 with a KV40 of only 28 cSt and CCS of 3400 cP.



I did find Cam2 Synavex 0W16 with a quick search.

SN+
Trinuclear moly
Mid SAPS
Grp III
HTHS 2.4
VI 200
KV40 31.2 cSt
PP -51

The Motul and Ravenol offerings have low VI's.

I anticipate trading my beloved truck in soon on a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid.
TGMO 0W16, here I come.
VOA, rapidly acquired UOA's to follow.
With Toyota's D4S fuel delivery system and mostly freeway miles,
my focus will be on extending OCI's and oxidative thickening.

grin.gif
 
Personally I would run a 5/30. For me, I don't live where it's cold enough for a 0wt, I prefer a 5/40 and it's what I run in both of my Honda vehicles
 
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Personally I would run a 5/30. For me, I don't live where it's cold enough for a 0wt, I prefer a 5/40 and it's what I run in both of my Honda vehicles




0w is not 0 weight.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
When we have an engine go over 60K on 0w20. Ill start trusting it. So far no luck out of 4 cars in the past decade. Mine gets driven hard the wife's get driven "normally' but it's not garaged in the Winter and will see lots of sub freezing starts with minimal warmup.



There are dozens of engines from members on here with more then 60K miles with nothing but 0W20.
 
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by CATERHAM
Not only is this the first TGMO 0W-16 UOA but it's the only 0W-16 UOA to date.

I've had an interest in how Toyota formulates this oil since is was released and was hoping for a comprehensive VOA perhaps from PQIA but nothing to-date.
So this UOA and the MSDS kinematic viscosity spec's will have to do which are as follows:
KV40 30.08 cSt
KV100 6.72 cSt
VI 191

This oil is simply TGMO 0W-20 with less Viscosity Index Improvers lowering the HTHS viscosity @150C from 2.6 cP to 2.3 cP.
That's a significant drop in VI, but at 191 it's still way higher than any other 0W-16 and therefore it is the lightest 0W-16 at typical start-up temp's.
The only oil on par is also made by Mobil, their Mobil Super Syn 0W-16 which has the same viscosity spec's (it's the same oil) but with a less robust additive pac'.
In the decade TGMO 0W-20 has been on the market it has established a reputation for good shear stability so TGMO 0W-16 should be bullet proof.

For vehicles that are spec'd the 0W-16 grade, at least here in North America,TGMO 0W-16 has to be the oil of choice, any other 0W-16 is even heavier than TGMO 0W-20 at typical start-up temp's which largely erases any fuel economy advantage it might otherwise have.
Ironically the only oil lighter than TGMO 0W-16 on start-up is the expensive Eneos Racing Street 0W-20 with a KV40 of only 28 cSt and CCS of 3400 cP.



I did find Cam2 Synavex 0W16 with a quick search.

SN+
Trinuclear moly
Mid SAPS
Grp III
HTHS 2.4
VI 200
KV40 31.2 cSt
PP -51

The Motul and Ravenol offerings have low VI's.

I anticipate trading my beloved truck in soon on a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid.
TGMO 0W16, here I come.
VOA, rapidly acquired UOA's to follow.
With Toyota's D4S fuel delivery system and mostly freeway miles,
my focus will be on extending OCI's and oxidative thickening.

grin.gif




Thanks for digging up the CAM2 Synavex 0W-16 PDS spec's.

The only way to know for sure if it's VI and other spec's hold up under scrutiny is with a VOA. It is so common for oils to fall short of their PDS spec's to some degree.
Anyway, based on the PDS info this oil will be heavier than TGMO due to it's higher 2.4cP HTHSV and KV40 spec's.

If you are going to order a VOA on TGMO 0W-16 I'd suggest requesting a KV40 test to be included.
 
Actually, CAM2 Synavex 0W-16"s 200 VI isn't higher than TGMO.
If you raised the HTHSV of TGMO 0W-16 to the 2.4cP of CAM2 by adding 33% of TGMO 0W-20, the resulting VI of that heavier TGMO 0W-16 would be 203.
 
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