Valvoline Synchromesh MTF?

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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT


Horse puckey; OEM's spec certain viscosities for a reason. I wouldn't dare put Synchromesh in an older Toyota that has known transmission issues.


I gave you facts, not "horse puckey." Just because you wouldn't dare do something or want to ignore the facts doesn't mean they don't exist.

Have you found anything to support a thick 75W-90 GL-4 protects a synchronized MTX better than a thinner fluid? I'd love to see the evidence because all I see are people getting amazing results and zero issues using thinner GL4 MTFs. Modified BMW owners run the [censored] out of Redline MTL (75W-80) and it has been fantastic for them.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm


I've always wondered this as well. With as many cars that spec a GL4 75W90,the only ones I've seen are Redline and Amsoil.

Only actual GL4's I've seen "over the counter" are 85W90 Sta Lube (Napa) and Pennzoil 80W90 Gear Plus (which is impossible to find,if they even make it any more). Is Redline MT90 the thickest 90 weight GL4?

Manual transmissions are one of those items that rarely get an oil change. Many people don't even realize that those oils should be changed. As a result, there is very little GL-4 on the shelf of most part stores. Compounding the problem is that if someone does replace the oil in their manual transmission, they usually need only very small amounts of oil.[/quote]

There are also people that will use a GL-5 oil in their manual transmission because they don't know why having an oil for GL-4 only is important. In that case, those people might not search for a GL-4 oil, when they think the right or even best oil is already on the shelf.

Some people prefer to get their manual transmission oils from their car dealer. They want the exact same oil that was the factory fill. Now imagine how much more items the parts store would need to stock if they had a 75w90 GL-4 for ever car maker that specifies it.
 
CURRENT VALVOLINE SPEC SHEET.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/vps_manual_transmission_fluid.pdf

as of 4/10/13. I run this in my AWD 3000 gt Vr4 twin turbo. At one time penns. conventional synchromesh is all we had. This oil meets the same specs but is full synthetic, better pour point and so much more. After 30 years as an oil and chemical operations manager, I just want you all to get the proper help. We have capabilities here most oil companies do not.
 
It's a shame this stuff is still so thick.
frown.gif


I would love to try it, but it is about 7 cSt @100* C too thick for my T56.
 
Originally Posted By: NIN
CURRENT VALVOLINE SPEC SHEET.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/vps_manual_transmission_fluid.pdf

as of 4/10/13. I run this in my AWD 3000 gt Vr4 twin turbo. At one time penns. conventional synchromesh is all we had. This oil meets the same specs but is full synthetic, better pour point and so much more. After 30 years as an oil and chemical operations manager, I just want you all to get the proper help. We have capabilities here most oil companies do not.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ran#Post3231394
 
^^^Yes, but even if that is the correct current cSt @100* C for this MTF, it is STILL at least 2 cSt too thick for my gearbox (unless I lived in south Texas, in the summer).
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: NIN
CURRENT VALVOLINE SPEC SHEET.
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/vps_manual_transmission_fluid.pdf
as of 4/10/13. I run this in my AWD 3000 gt Vr4 twin turbo. At one time penns. conventional synchromesh is all we had. This oil meets the same specs but is full synthetic, better pour point and so much more. After 30 years as an oil and chemical operations manager, I just want you all to get the proper help. We have capabilities here most oil companies do not.


This is one synchromesh I won't hesitate to pour into my trans that calls for it..
Strong properties it has .
 
For thicker operating MOFT and components protection , pick one with a higher KV@40*C , and if possible simultaneously a similar or higher KV@100*C.
 
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So I have a Getrag 250 5 Speed that was Manufactured in 2001 for a 2002 BMW E46 325i... Sticker is missing off of Transmission
But In my research I believe it to take MTF-LT-1... Correct me if I'm wrong. So Several years ago when I got the car I substituted
Royal Purple Syncromax. But as others have said its thin like Water. I had the tranny out to do a clutch and seals. No body has
RedLine MTL on the shelf around here so I found this Valvoline MTL 811095 and read this old Thread. Is it OK for my Transmission?

Also I contacted Valvoline via chat and this is what Mary @ Valvoline says below:

Live Chat with Valvoline

‎02‎:‎07‎ ‎PM
Thank you for contacting Valvoline Product Support. May we please have your first and last name?

You
‎02‎:‎08‎ ‎PM
is the Valvoline Syncromesh 811095 a GL-4 Rated with the friction modifiers?

Valvoline
‎02‎:‎08‎ ‎PM
Thank you, sledgebeast. A team member will be with you shortly. .

Mary
‎02‎:‎11‎ ‎PM
Hello sledgebeast,
My name is Mary, how may I help you today?

You
02‎:‎12‎ ‎PM
is the Valvoline Syncromesh 811095 a GL-4 Rated with the friction modifiers?

Mary
‎02‎:‎13‎ ‎PM
Our Valvoline Synchromesh is not meant for differential application so there for has not limited slip additive.

Mary
‎02‎:‎13‎ ‎PM
Is there anything else I can assist you with today?

You
‎02‎:‎13‎ ‎PM
Its not going in a differential, Its a Manual Transmission with syncros

You
02‎:‎14‎ ‎PM
As far as I can tell oem spec called for equiv of GL-4

‎You
02‎:‎14‎ ‎PM
Its actually BMW's MTF-LT-1 OR 2

Mary
‎02‎:‎15‎ ‎PM
That will be the correct product, it is safe for yellow metals and synchronizer.

Mary
‎02‎:‎15‎ ‎PM
Is there anything else I can assist you with today?

You
‎02‎:‎16‎ ‎PM
SO It is ok in substutite for MTF-LT-1

Mary
‎02‎:‎16‎ ‎PM
Yes we recommend Valvoline Synchromesh for this application.

‎You
02‎:‎17‎ ‎PM
OK YES ONE last thing? What Equivelant Weight is this Oil... ie 75w-80 etc... ???


Mary
‎02‎:‎18‎ ‎PM
It is formulated for the yellow metals, but has a quality of around 75W-90
 
Originally Posted by sledgebeast
So I have a Getrag 250 5 Speed that was Manufactured in 2001 for a 2002 BMW E46 325i... Sticker is missing off of Transmission
But In my research I believe it to take MTF-LT-1... Correct me if I'm wrong. So Several years ago when I got the car I substituted
Royal Purple Syncromax. But as others have said its thin like Water. I had the tranny out to do a clutch and seals. No body has
RedLine MTL on the shelf around here so I found this Valvoline MTL 811095 and read this old Thread. Is it OK for my Transmission?

Here is a thread on this topic:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2391908

You must have had some defective Royal Purple gear oil then since it shows the viscosity to be higher than the BMW fluid.
 
Nope. you must be thinking of the other royal purple lube. I've had 2 or 3 different bottles of The Royal Purple Syncromax bought various years. and
it has all been a thin purple runny liquid. As many others, in many different forums, have also stated its like water!

Some even speak of using ATF which has about the same consistency as RP Syncromax. So that's why I went ahead and used it before. But Im looking
to go with something acceptable that's on the shelf now. Orilley's quit having RP S on the shelf. They can order it for $19 bucks or more. If I was going to
do that I'd just order RedLine MTF @ $16.95 a bottle. Orilley's does have the Valvoline on the shelf at $9.95

Also I read that other thread days ago. It Doesn't address my direct inquiry about V MTF...
 
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Originally Posted by sledgebeast
Nope. you must be thinking of the other royal purple lube. I've had 2 or 3 different bottles of The Royal Purple Syncromax bought various years. and it has all been a thin purple runny liquid. As many others, in many different forums, have also stated its like water!

So the one you bought is different than the one in that thread I linked?

Why not just buy the BMW MTF-LT-1 (or MTF-LT-2)? I know it is rather expensive but you'll know it's the correct fluid for the application.
 
After posting in other forums and getting feedback that actually relates to my Question about Valvoline Syncromesh. I have went with it.
Since we are going into winter. This should tell me if this was a good choice or not. If Shifting Cold becomes a problem during sub freezing
temperatures in Jan & Feb. I will report back those results. I was really hoping someone here would have some real insight into Valvoline Syncromesh.
Since that is what this particular thread title & subject matter was about. & Not just pushing their rhetoric to increase their post numbers...
 
Plenty of BMW MTF-LT-1 or LT-2 aftermarket fluids to be had, why go with something that isn't really correct?
Well you'll find out if it was the right move sooner or later.
 
Ok so how is it not really correct? If the requirement is GL-4 with the friction additives & safe for yellow metals?
As long as it is not too thick for shifting in winter temperatures. Which obcourse I will be finding out this winter.
It may be better than MTF-LT-1. Lord knows they claim the OEM is Lifetime Oil.
Any Transmission shop will tell you that's a load of BS! The factory oil I drained out way back when,
looked like crap at 10 years old. Some people believe RP Syncro is better than LT-1.
Others say they had less than stellar results with RP. Who knows!

BTW there is not 1 store in my town that has any of those on the shelf. Special Order only!
Again I am trying to use something equivalent that is available locally without having to order oil.
I drove all over town Friday to every auto parts store looking into this. If they had carried Redline MTL
I would have probable went that way. I didn't just grab Valvoline MTL without looking into this first.
How often does the end user actually contact the oil manufacturer to research a bottle of oil?
 
Originally Posted by sledgebeast
Ok so how is it not really correct? If the requirement is GL-4 with the friction additives & safe for yellow metals?


But the Valvoline Synchromesh does NOT carry the GL-4 designation on the label or on their PDS. So while it "may" meet specs it just as well might not,
there is more to GL-4 than just the fact that is will not damage brass or other yellow metal parts. There are many other additives in GL-4 that make up the entire product.
 
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Originally Posted by sledgebeast
After posting in other forums and getting feedback that actually relates to my Question about Valvoline Syncromesh. I have went with it.
Since we are going into winter. This should tell me if this was a good choice or not. If Shifting Cold becomes a problem during sub freezing
temperatures in Jan & Feb. I will report back those results. I was really hoping someone here would have some real insight into Valvoline Syncromesh.
Since that is what this particular thread title & subject matter was about. & Not just pushing their rhetoric to increase their post numbers...

Nice, good criticism of this board and people here trying to help you. What "rhetoric" exactly is someone pushing in this thread and who are you referring to?

The correct fluid is the BMW branded one. What exactly does your owner's manual say for fluid specification? It does give one, right?
 
Originally Posted by sledgebeast
After posting in other forums and getting feedback that actually relates to my Question about Valvoline Syncromesh.


You problem then is floating around the Internet and tying up your boat at the wrong ports to get your into.

Originally Posted by sledgebeast
I have went with it.
Since we are going into winter. This should tell me if this was a good choice or not. If Shifting Cold becomes a problem during sub freezing temperatures in Jan & Feb. I will report back those results. I was really hoping someone here would have some real insight into Valvoline Syncromesh.


Two pages on the specifications (oil properties) of Valvoline synchromesh and you can't glean any technical information?

If you are looking for an MTF that is close in viscosity specifications to the BMW fluid, have the BMW fluid analyzed for 100C and 40C viscsoity and then go searching for an aftermarket fluid.

Originally Posted by sledgebeast
Since that is what this particular thread title & subject matter was about. & Not just pushing their rhetoric to increase their post numbers...


Being accusative doesn't work well here at BITOG as we attempt to stick with technical topics. The posts I have seen here in this thread were trying to help you and others.

What don't you understand about this list of MTF's?

Quote
NOTE: This list is only a "suggested" list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or those that have excessive wear.

A.
These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.X cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]
6. Redline MT-LV SAE Viscosity Grade 70W/75W Vis 6.5cst@100°C


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.6 cSt@100C versions (SAE 70W75) (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 ,3
7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)
8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)
9.0 Pentosin FFL-4
10. Redline Power Steering Fluid
11. RAVENOL STF


C. The next higher viscosity MTL group is in the 8.0 cSt to 8.9 cSt Range would be:

1. Castrol Syntrans V FE (8.0cSt)
2. Redline DCTF Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid (8.1 cSt)
3. BG Synchroshift II (8.2 cSt)
4. RAVENOL PSA (8.9 cSt)

Note: C, D and E are often considered popularly as "synchromesh" fluids.


D. The next higher viscosity MTL group in the 9.0 to 9.5 cSt range is (SAE 75W80):

1. Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0 cSt
2. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt
3. Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
4. RAVENOL SSG 9.5 cSt


E. The next group of MTL's are in the 9.6 to 10.X cSt range (SAE 75W80):

1. Redline MTL 75W80
2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)
3. GM Synchromesh's
4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF
7. Motylgear 75W-80


F. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a 12.0cSt@100C and SAE 75W85:

1. Redline MT-85


G. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt (SAE 75W90) range would be:

1. Amsoil MTG
2. Redline MT-90
3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90
5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS
7. ACDelco 10-4059 GL-4 75W-90 Manual Transmission Fluid
8. RAVENOL TSG SAE 75W-90
9. LiquiMoly 75W-90 GL4
 
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