New Winter Tires from Nokian

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Originally Posted By: SubLGT
From CR's (Nov 2017 issue) testing of wet/dry handling, they give these ratings:

Nokian R2: fair
Nokian R2 SUV: good
Continental WinterContact SI: poor
Michelin Xi3: fair
Michelin Latitude Xi2: good
Blizzak DM-V2: fair
Michelin Alpin PA4: good

("good" is a one step higher rating than "fair')


That is strange for Continental and proof that they are not using same compound as in Europe in their TS series winter tires.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
...Give it year or two. They are due for change...


The Xi3 has been on the market for a full 6 years now. The product cycle used to be around 4 years, but demand for winter tires is slowing down in the US, where most drivers are satisfied to "get by" on all season tires.

Quote:
...Michael Mathis, president of Atturo Tire Corp., is blunt. “I believe the winter tire market in the U.S. is constantly shrinking. Even in our hometown of Chicago where we see a solid three months of cold temperatures, very few vehicles on the road have a snow tire.”
He attributes that to a pair of factors. “First, tire dealers are increasingly timid in advising drivers about the need for a winter tire that goes beyond snow and ice traction. Second, the performance of all-season tires has been improving, making them legitimately more suitable for the moderate weather climates across the center of the country,” Mathis says…

...Travis Roffler, director of marketing for Continental Tire the Americas LLC says, “We don’t see it growing.” He estimates the market accounts for 6 million to 8 million tires in the U.S….

...“Winter tires are a niche within the global tire industry, but there is still room for growth within the market, as they accounted for $19.3 billion in worldwide tire sales,” says Jon Vance, vice president of product marketing for TBC Brands...


http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/...es-in-2017-2018
 
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Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I have the R2's and have been happy with them. Not great on ice but very good on the rest. Never had any issues on dry or wet with them. They feel safe in dry and wet if you drive a reasonable speed. They handle deep snow with ease.

We have the SUV version on the Q5 and my experience has been similar to yours. If I could improve anything, I'd ask for less noise.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: edyvw
...Give it year or two. They are due for change...


The Xi3 has been on the market for a full 6 years now. The product cycle used to be around 4 years, but demand for winter tires is slowing down in the US, where most drivers are satisfied to "get by" on all season tires.

Quote:
...Michael Mathis, president of Atturo Tire Corp., is blunt. “I believe the winter tire market in the U.S. is constantly shrinking. Even in our hometown of Chicago where we see a solid three months of cold temperatures, very few vehicles on the road have a snow tire.”
He attributes that to a pair of factors. “First, tire dealers are increasingly timid in advising drivers about the need for a winter tire that goes beyond snow and ice traction. Second, the performance of all-season tires has been improving, making them legitimately more suitable for the moderate weather climates across the center of the country,” Mathis says…

...Travis Roffler, director of marketing for Continental Tire the Americas LLC says, “We don’t see it growing.” He estimates the market accounts for 6 million to 8 million tires in the U.S….

...“Winter tires are a niche within the global tire industry, but there is still room for growth within the market, as they accounted for $19.3 billion in worldwide tire sales,” says Jon Vance, vice president of product marketing for TBC Brands...


http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/...es-in-2017-2018

The US market is specific compared to Europe where many countries require winter tires. That is why I do not understand why some companies just do not bring Euro versions here.
As for Xi3, Michelin hit there I think what average driver want. Really good ice performance, solid deep snow and OK slush performance. Good longevity and good dry performance. Now we freaks who always look for bit better might look for best thing after sliced bread, but in all honesty, I would be happy if majority of drivers buy cheapest winter tire so I do not have to look in horror my rearview mirror every time it is slippery.
Michelin updated some winter tires in Europe, so maybe they will do it next year here.
 
Some specific info, and a photo, of the new WRG4:
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/news/727...for-all-weather

Quote:
...The WR G4 features a new all weather dual performance compound, which Nokian says features longer lasting tread life…...The tire comes equipped with new Coanda Technology which combats the risk of hydroplaning. The curved, ramp-like design of the tread blocks on the inner and outer shoulder guides and accelerates the flow of water from the longitudinal grooves into the transverse grooves. Nokian says these hydroplaning prevention properties are retained even as the tire wears…

...The Nokian WR G4 features silent sidewall technology, which includes a tailored special rubber compound between the sidewall and tread which actively filters the sound and vibration originating from the driving surface, preventing the passage of sound waves through the sidewall into the rim and further into the passenger compartment...
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Some specific info, and a photo, of the new WRG4:
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/news/727...for-all-weather

Quote:
...The WR G4 features a new all weather dual performance compound, which Nokian says features longer lasting tread life…...The tire comes equipped with new Coanda Technology which combats the risk of hydroplaning. The curved, ramp-like design of the tread blocks on the inner and outer shoulder guides and accelerates the flow of water from the longitudinal grooves into the transverse grooves. Nokian says these hydroplaning prevention properties are retained even as the tire wears…

...The Nokian WR G4 features silent sidewall technology, which includes a tailored special rubber compound between the sidewall and tread which actively filters the sound and vibration originating from the driving surface, preventing the passage of sound waves through the sidewall into the rim and further into the passenger compartment...


It's not a new tire. It's a rebadged WR A4.

https://www.nokiantyres.com/winter-tyres/nokian-wr-a4/
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I would hope Nokian would improve their Hakkapeliittas; I ran them about ten years ago and they were great when new, but the sticky layer wore very quickly; by the third winter they were useless. I would want to see some rather large improvements before I would try them again.


We had Hakkapelitta Rs on our Civic for six years. I did notice they grew less sticky as they aged, but I'd hardly call them useless after three years. We replaced them with R2s because they were getting a bit too old for my taste.

The Hakkapelitta 8s on the Forester are still working fine after three years. I was driving at -30 and below around Christmas and didn't have to think at all about the road conditions, because the tires just worked. Heck, today I was driving out in the wilds, and when I got out of the car I had a hard time standing up because the ice was so bad, but the car didn't even notice.
 
From VTI (Swedish National Road and Transport Research Institute)

https://www.vti.se/en/news/major-test-a-lot-to-think-about-when-choosing-winter-tyres/

Quote:
...The differences between the tyre types diminish when they are worn but, despite major deterioration, worn studded tyres still clearly grip the ice better than do worn non-studded tyres. In these tests, the worn European tyres performed on par with summer tyres that were several years old. In terms of their grip on snow, the differences between the different types of winter tyres are smaller on snow than on ice. Tests of worn tyres indicate that the European tyres lose the most in terms of performance...


As winter tires age, studded tires will have the least degradation of ice traction.
Performance winters will have the most degradation of ice traction.
Studless winters will have degradation of ice traction that lies between the above two classes
 
I just had a chance to put R2 SUV thru major storm. Classic Colorado January storm, 6-10 inches of powder, winds 50-60mph, glare ice in some areas due to treatment and then freezing because temperature was too low for treatment to keep roads wet.
Tire is phenomenal in deep snow, slush created by treatment, that mix of salt and snow. In glare ice I had to move from stop several times at intersection at incline of 5-6%, no problems, actually TC on Tiguan did not activate at all. Some cars with FWD (all seasons) could not move at all, and one Subaru (this is normal scene in Colorado with Subaru) had really tough time (Also No. 1 vehicle in the ditch due to drivers perception of Subaru as "drives in snow like in dry" vehicle).
I already stated that tire is average at best in dry for winter tire and now tires started to make some kind of "metal" bouncing noise when I hit bridge dividers, some cracks etc. Never had a tire with that kind of noise and they are on the way to be the worst winter tire in dry I ever owned.
As for comparing to Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 I had for three previous winters I cannot say they are any better in moving forward in deep snow. However, they are noticeably better in slush (that salt/snow melt) and stopping in ice. How much better? Slightly! However, really big difference is in controlling vehicle once tires looses contact. I entered one curve around 40-50mph and tires progressively lost traction (this is VERY important. I actually had a feeling that tires will lose traction, they like warned me). Once car started to slide, I just corrected a bit, add power a bit (I was around 2k rpms) and they just put car thru the curve, never had a feeling I will come to point of losing control. BIG, BIG difference compare to Bridgestone WS70 and ESPECIALLY DM-V2 I had on BMW that actually fought me when I wanted to correct.
I tried several times in purpose again, and it confirmed my thought that these tires really like to listen drivers input, regardless how hostile road surface is.
 
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Nokian held an event in Colorado to introduce the tires to dealers and the press (were you there, Edyvw?).

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/news/728...nd-winter-tires

Quote:
...Steve Bourassa, manager of passenger and light truck products business in North America, says Nokian is now in a position to grow in non-winter markets.

“Twenty years ago, we took a central European winter tire and marketed it for use year-round in the U.S. and gave it a mileage warranty.” That tire, the Nokian WR, marked the onset of the all-weather concept in North America, according to Bourassa.

He says Nokian has continued to develop the WR product to accommodate the needs of North American roads and consumers ever since. The latest generation, the WR G4, is “a safe alternative to all-season tires in areas where winter lives or where winter visits.”...

...Dyhrman [director of marketing for Nokian’s North America business] says the studless R3 and R3 SUV improve upon the highly regarded Hakkapeliitta R2 and R2 SUV tires in several ways. To improve ice grip, pocket-shaped “pump” sipes, a technology which draws water into the tire and pumps it back out when the tire is on ice, were moved from the shoulder of the predecessor tire to the center of R3 and R3 SUV. In the shoulder area, newly developed "comb" sipes provide both water storage and improved shoulder block stability......A new compounding material called cryo crystal 3 has improved ice grip over the prior tire.

“Cryo crystal 3 is a biomaterial that acts like a microstud that’s mixed into the compound," says Dyhrman. "Similar to a stud, cryo crystal 3 allows the tire to grip on icy surfaces. It is mixed into the actual compound so that even as the tires wear, the cryo crystals will be at the surface and not wear away.”...



http://www.tirereview.com/nokian-tyres-unveils-newest-generation-winter-season-tires/

Quote:
...At an event at the Copper Mountain Resort high in the Colorado Rockies, Nokian Tyres rolled out the newest generation of their Hakkapeliitta winter tires...

...“Winter performance has always been the absolute key to our R&D,” says Bourassa. “We have maintained or improved the winter capabilities (on the Hakkapeliitta R3 and WR G4), but we’ve made big improvements in dry traction, wet traction as well, so it handles a lot better. It’s a lot more comfortable. I’m really happy with where R&D guys have been able to go with this product. That’s been quite impressive so far.”...

...Hans Dyhrman ... said unlike many all-season tires, the company builds its all-weather tires with winter driving as the primary focus, and then adapts the tires to summer conditions.

“When we look at our all-weather category, we build it to excel in winter conditions and then also adapt it to all-season conditions as well,” Dyhrman said...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Nokian held an event in Colorado to introduce the tires to dealers and the press (were you there, Edyvw?).

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/news/728...nd-winter-tires

Quote:
...Steve Bourassa, manager of passenger and light truck products business in North America, says Nokian is now in a position to grow in non-winter markets.

“Twenty years ago, we took a central European winter tire and marketed it for use year-round in the U.S. and gave it a mileage warranty.” That tire, the Nokian WR, marked the onset of the all-weather concept in North America, according to Bourassa.

He says Nokian has continued to develop the WR product to accommodate the needs of North American roads and consumers ever since. The latest generation, the WR G4, is “a safe alternative to all-season tires in areas where winter lives or where winter visits.”...

...Dyhrman [director of marketing for Nokian’s North America business] says the studless R3 and R3 SUV improve upon the highly regarded Hakkapeliitta R2 and R2 SUV tires in several ways. To improve ice grip, pocket-shaped “pump” sipes, a technology which draws water into the tire and pumps it back out when the tire is on ice, were moved from the shoulder of the predecessor tire to the center of R3 and R3 SUV. In the shoulder area, newly developed "comb" sipes provide both water storage and improved shoulder block stability......A new compounding material called cryo crystal 3 has improved ice grip over the prior tire.

“Cryo crystal 3 is a biomaterial that acts like a microstud that’s mixed into the compound," says Dyhrman. "Similar to a stud, cryo crystal 3 allows the tire to grip on icy surfaces. It is mixed into the actual compound so that even as the tires wear, the cryo crystals will be at the surface and not wear away.”...



http://www.tirereview.com/nokian-tyres-unveils-newest-generation-winter-season-tires/

Quote:
...At an event at the Copper Mountain Resort high in the Colorado Rockies, Nokian Tyres rolled out the newest generation of their Hakkapeliitta winter tires...

...“Winter performance has always been the absolute key to our R&D,” says Bourassa. “We have maintained or improved the winter capabilities (on the Hakkapeliitta R3 and WR G4), but we’ve made big improvements in dry traction, wet traction as well, so it handles a lot better. It’s a lot more comfortable. I’m really happy with where R&D guys have been able to go with this product. That’s been quite impressive so far.”...

...Hans Dyhrman ... said unlike many all-season tires, the company builds its all-weather tires with winter driving as the primary focus, and then adapts the tires to summer conditions.

“When we look at our all-weather category, we build it to excel in winter conditions and then also adapt it to all-season conditions as well,” Dyhrman said...

Nah, Cooper is becoming too touristy
smile.gif

Based on dry and wet performance of R2 SUV, I would not say it was too hard to make an improvement. Hardly doubt they could do worse then R2.
On other hand I have never expected Michelin Xi2 I got for BMW to be so good in snow.
 
About to upgrade my 3.6R to R3 SUV from R2 SUV.

We drive back and forth between our place near Mt Sunapee and Boston regularly. Is rather common to start in rain, drive through slush, and arrive in fresh snow.

Between our fleet at work and our POV, we've owned Nokian RSI, R, R2, R2 SUV, Michelin X-i2, Blizzak WS80's, and General Altimax Arctic (Sold as Gislaved NordFrost 3 ROW).
 
Although the previous set of R2's are not worn out, put on new "Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 SUV‘s today on my Outback. Used the OEM rims from my WRX and they look decent."‘s today on my Outback. Used the OEM rims from my WRX and they look decent. Not sure how they will clear snow build up with all those spokes.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]


Here's what the tread looks like. I measured sound level with the noise app on my Apple Watch and it was the same:66-68 dB at 70mph.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
 
This new tire features friendly technology, latest technology and some of its technology are first incorporated by Nokian.

Like the arctic technology which is the first stainless steel stud innovation and it is used in building this tire for it to have heavy-duty abilities.
It also features winter safety indicator (WSI) in its tread for enhanced safety.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw


I already stated that tire is average at best in dry for winter tire and now tires started to make some kind of "metal" bouncing noise when I hit bridge dividers, some cracks etc. Never had a tire with that kind of noise ...



Probably not the tires. Could be brake pads rattling, or slide pins rattling, or a ball joint going bad etc. Cracks and small bumps are not moving the suspension much, but will cause anything with play to rattle. Try gently applying the brakes over a rattly section of road. If the noise goes away, it's something in your brake caliper. If not, look elsewhere. I had a ball joint do exactly what you described. No squeaks, perfectly fine on smooth roads and over larger bumps and swells, but on a jiggly road surface, especially with cracks where the wheel dropped a little, it rattled.
 
SHARP ! All wheel drive wagon with premium winter tires. And, yes, the wheels look decent. Very nice.

Edyvw ... another responsible Subaru driver. How strange ...


Originally Posted by Ranger83
Used the OEM rims from my WRX and they look decent ...

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
 
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