Oil recommendation for H22

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Bxnanaz

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First off, I know this topic should probably be in the racing section, but that section isn’t near as active.

I have a Honda h22 engine (soiled valvetrain, very prone to shear at the rockers. Rebuilt by me with stock clearances, with a very mild cam and some mild valvesprings: Makes 213 WHP.

This engine is strictly for dirt circle track racing where it sees hot summers (~100F). Sees short runs (15-20 lap races mostly, 3/8 mile), and revs to 8500-9000rpm twice a lap. Was running 10w-30 Amsoil Dominator for the winter races but wondering if I should bump up to 15w-50? Any input is appreciated
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
What do your competitors use that finish races at the top positions run?


Some run 30s, some 50s. Class is full of completely different engines. Stock and built.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
A good 10W-30 is all you need.


That’s how I was leaning. Ran it all last summter with the stock engine (before I managed to overheat it causing the rebuild), and all the bearings looked mint.

But this engine has more power and turns about 1000 more RPMs
 
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So oil viscosity is about fluid film at op temp. Since this is a race motor, we need to know what the sump temps are when all warmed up and making laps... You said stock rebuild, so I'm guessing rods and mains are 0.0025... If bigger, that will be a factor we need too?

OK, you need shear stable oils. Not a lot of those in 10W-30. That's mostly old school dino's and blends. Some good street oils, but you gotta watch the VII's...

IF your bearings are at what I guessed and the ring end gaps are OK, I'd prolly start with Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty) and get a UOA after a couple of features/mains. If the UOA's say it's shearing, I'd move on to a full synthetic oil, your choice of brand. Mobil1 is easy to get. Just gotta pick the right one
laugh.gif


Race motor, we need to be doing this by the numbers, not by opinions ...
 
In his post he states: stock clearances, mild cam and valve springs.

I don't think his H22 is going to be shearing any decent 10W-30.

OP, you could try a Euro 0W-40. Not too much thicker than a 30 but they are stay-in-grade oils with higher HTHS. Bunch of race teams across the board run Mobil 1 0W-40 out of the bottle, AFAIK.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
So oil viscosity is about fluid film at op temp. Since this is a race motor, we need to know what the sump temps are when all warmed up and making laps... You said stock rebuild, so I'm guessing rods and mains are 0.0025... If bigger, that will be a factor we need too?

OK, you need shear stable oils. Not a lot of those in 10W-30. That's mostly old school dino's and blends. Some good street oils, but you gotta watch the VII's...

IF your bearings are at what I guessed and the ring end gaps are OK, I'd prolly start with Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty) and get a UOA after a couple of features/mains. If the UOA's say it's shearing, I'd move on to a full synthetic oil, your choice of brand. Mobil1 is easy to get. Just gotta pick the right one
laugh.gif


Race motor, we need to be doing this by the numbers, not by opinions ...


Appreciate the response. Clearances are around .0015. Amsoil dominator is full syn made for racing.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
In his post he states: stock clearances, mild cam and valve springs.

I don't think his H22 is going to be shearing any decent 10W-30.

OP, you could try a Euro 0W-40. Not too much thicker than a 30 but they are stay-in-grade oils with higher HTHS. Bunch of race teams across the board run Mobil 1 0W-40 out of the bottle, AFAIK.


I’ve considered this. Would be much cheaper than $10+ a quart Amsoil
 
OK, rods and mains are tight enough that a 30 should do fine at temp. The reason I said we need the sump temp during laps is we do not know how hot you are running. "Assume" 200* coolant, but maybe more... "Assume" 250~275* oil, but very likely could be 300* ... If the sump is over 300* when you roll into the pits after a long run, need to step up the oil. If not, the M1 mentioned above will be fine
smile.gif


I would not consider a 50 unless you are well north of 300* with those clearances ...
 
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
OK, rods and mains are tight enough that a 30 should do fine at temp. The reason I said we need the sump temp during laps is we do not know how hot you are running. "Assume" 200* coolant, but maybe more... "Assume" 250~275* oil, but very likely could be 300* ... If the sump is over 300* when you roll into the pits after a long run, need to step up the oil. If not, the M1 mentioned above will be fine
smile.gif


I would not consider a 50 unless you are well north of 300* with those clearances ...


I unfortunately don’t have an oil temp gauge. Coolant is 180-200. Car has a factory oil cooler so I would like to think oil temp isn’t too terrible. I’m gonna give the 0W-40 a try this season. Don’t think I’ll do an oil analysis, but we’ll see.
 
I'd love to know how it gets 200whp with cams? Surely more mods than just that? And I vote yes to a 40 grade. High rpms cause more heat so oil temps would be higher than stock especially when racing.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: KL31
I'd love to know how it gets 200whp with cams? Surely more mods than just that? And I vote yes to a 40 grade. High rpms cause more heat so oil temps would be higher than stock especially when racing.


Honda made some very impressive NA 4 cylinder engines. VTEC in intake and exhaust is pretty awesome. Full mods are:
Garage ported IM (see attached pic)
ARP rod bolts
Mild cams
70mm TB

You have to remember also that this is a strictly race car/engine. No PS/AC etc.
 
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Originally Posted By: KL31
I'd love to know how it gets 200whp with cams? Surely more mods than just that? And I vote yes to a 40 grade. High rpms cause more heat so oil temps would be higher than stock especially when racing.


Ask him what his redline is and what his high cam lift is in mm
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: Bxnanaz
Was running 10w-30 Amsoil Dominator for the winter races but wondering if I should bump up to 15w-50? Any input is appreciated


Stay with the 10w30. NA high RPM engines only produce more heat with excessive HTHSV. KL31, I remember you were asking about grades and I'd offer that same advice to you too with your engine.
 
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Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: KL31
I'd love to know how it gets 200whp with cams? Surely more mods than just that? And I vote yes to a 40 grade. High rpms cause more heat so oil temps would be higher than stock especially when racing.


Ask him what his redline is and what his high cam lift is in mm
wink.gif


9000 rpm redline, but makes peak power at 7500rpm. .486in lift on intake.
 
Right on man, that's 12.3mm of lift more than pretty much any other car leaves the factory with. 35mm intake valves same as K-series IIRC and a 70mm TB - that's Mustang size. Power output not much a surprise there. That's gotta be a blast around the track!
 
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